Balk-turning the shoulder

[Gre144]

Pitcher is in a half wind up with both hands at his side. He turns his shoulder towards first base. I call a balk.
Was this the right call? The pitcher said that he didn't balk because it is legal to turn the shoulder towards first before the pitcher brings his hands together to come to a set position. I used the explantion that an umpire gave me on this same topic in a previous thread. He said its simple-If the pitcher is bringing his hands together to come set while he turns his shoulders, it would be a legal move. On the other hand, if he is on the mound without any movement and then turns his shoulders he would be balking.(This umpire didn't mention whether having the hands to the side before coming set or having them together after coming set plays a factor in determining if the pitcher balked or not)

Greg

[Bfair]

First, Greg, I am unaware of any specific OBR rule stating the turning of a shoulder is a balk. If there is, please enlighten me. Therefore, my continued comment is in regards to Fed.

Per Fed rule 6-1-1, turning the shoulders while on the pitching plate is a balk---agreed. I don't know which or whose previous post you were referring to in your initial post, nor do I know what "a half wind up" is. I would only offer the following:

If the pitcher from the wind up has started his delivery motion, he may turn his shoulders as much as he cares to provided he delivers his pitch in a continuous motion. He cannot be balked from the wind up for turning his shoulders after he has started his pitch.

Before he has started his pitch he must be on the rubber. Some pitchers may turn their head to look at a runner causing slight movement of the shoulders. Is movement of the shoulder the same as "turning the shoulders". I think not. The body is not a statue. When judging this for a balk, allow the degree of shoulder turn to be a determining factor in arriving at your decision. Even then, you may be undecided. In that case, the final decision should be whether or not you felt the pitcher was attempting to deceive the runner in making him think he may throw to the base.

Don't be overofficious. Know the rules, but if they couldn't see a shoulder turn from the dugout and stands, it probably didn't happen. Some may even say if they didn't see it from Cleveland, it probably didn't happen. Did the pitcher gain an advantage?

Just a recommendation,

Freix

[Gre144]

I am using the half wind up in reference to the set position. The term set position is a little confusing because it can refer to the initial position of the pitcher as he steps on the mound or the time after the pitcher brings his hands together to come set.

I am curious if F1, in the the set position, can move his shoulders towards first at the time his hands are down at his side? I know that at the time his hands are together while he is set that he can not turn his shoulders. I am not sure if the shoulder turn is permitted when he is initially on the mound and his hands are at his side.

Greg

In OBR he may turn in the preliminary stretch up to and including while he is coming set. Once he is set he may have a slight and slow turn but it must be slight. As was stated the body isn't a statue so a little is ok. A sharp turn from any position is going to be a balk.
In FED they are less forgiving. As soon as he steps on the rubber he is governed by the rules. I say follow as above with the slight and slow. Anything exaggerated or qiuck should be balked.

[JJ]

In OBR turning of the shoulders is OK as long as the pitcher does not do it to deceive the runner (by jerking his shoulders as if he is throwing to first).

In FED, any turning of the shoulders after the pitcher has intentionally contacted the rubber is a balk. Rule book page 37, Rule 6-1-1