Have you ever had one of those days when you just knew nothing was going to go right? I had one of those days all day today at a regional clinic for Babe Ruth Umpires.

It started when the regional UIC and head clinician started covering balks. He was going along alright until he mentioned that the pitcher must take his signs from the catcher while on the rubber or it's a balk. I raised my hand to explain that the rule was not to prevent the pitcher from taking signs from someone other than the catcher, but rather to ensure that he took his signs while on the rubber to prevent the quick pitch. He immediately told me that I was wrong and that if I see a pitcher take signs from the dugout I'm supposed to call a balk with runners on. Well, I didn't want to seem like an *** so I let it go.

The next item that made my head spin was appeals. We started discussing the ways the defense loses it's right to appeal, when one of the guys mentioned he had a play where R1 missed second base on his way to third. When the ball came back into the infield, F6 requested time and his partner granted time. F6 then went to the bag and verbally announced he was appealing the miss of the base. Evidently his partner rung him up immediately. The umpire in the class wanted to know if that was a legal appeal, and guess what. The clinician said it was! Again, I raised my hand and said that was an incorrect ruling, letting him know that no appeal can be made in an OBR game while the ball is dead. He asked me to show him in the rule where it says an appeal must be made during a live ball. I told him to look at 7.11 and if that didn't convince him he should look at 5.02 and then 5.11 to see how to legally put the ball back into play. He looked up the rules and still said I was wrong and that just for arguments sake he would get a clarification from BR International and see what they have to say. Like I don't know how that's going to come out already.

The next 'discussion' that got under my skin was also on appeals. One of the guys brought up the mechanic for a missed base when the runner beat the ball to the bag at first. The UIC said to do nothing and as soon as F3 steps on the bag, bang out the BR. Another umpire who I know from working HS games with said that also was incorrect. Not that I didn't know that, but it was nice to hear someone else take a stand on a bad ruling. We went round and round with the UIC trying to convince him the proper mechanic is to signal safe as soon as the trail foot passes the bag and then wait for the appeal. Try as we might he insisted it was our duty to call him out as soon as F3 received the ball while touching the bag.

We started covering obstruction, specifically type A. The UIC cited a play where R2 was being played on and was obstructed by F6. Okay, should be simple enough, or so I thought That was until he said to kill the play and if the runner had not gotten at least half way to third he is sent back to second. WTF? I've heard some coaches say some pretty stupid stuff over the years, but this stuff was coming from a regional UIC for Babe Ruth baseball. Granted this is his first year as the UIC, but that's no excuse for making these kinds of mistakes.

I hope things get better because they certainly can't get much worse.


Tim.

Tim,

Is this guy for real?

You did mean Rule 7.10 didn't you? 7.11 is about vacating space to avoid interference. Also the place that I buy my Big Gulp and hot dog.

No wonder there are so many screwed up umpires out there with instructors like him running clinics.

When politics trump competence this is a too familiar situation.

While it will always be involved, the better associations and leagues let politics make the decision between or among competent umpires.

[Edited by GarthB on Mar 18th, 2006 at 05:00 PM]

And
 

It's also the Peter Principle: in any organization, people will rise to their level of incompetence and remain there. Sounds funny, but if you think about it for a minute, it makes sense.

I'm quite certain that this principle is unrelated to Peter Osborne.

what region is this guy from?

Disadvantage Defense
 

Your 'discussion on appeals' got under my skin. It concerns the mechanic for a missed base when the runner beats the ball to the bag at first base.

A) The UIC said to do nothing and as soon as F3 steps on the bag, bang out the BR. He insisted it was our duty to call him out as soon as F3 received the ball while touching the bag.

When the runner stops at 1B, the margin for CORRECTION also shortens exponentially. Pitcher and catcher may not likely question an umpire {incorrectly} selling SAFE insurance. The defensive coach, who is restricted to the dugout, has very limited opportunity to restore timely order. Any umpire who then reverses his original SAFE call also has to deal with another issue, INTEGRITY. I think this UIC is standing on solid GROUND, not trying to impress us with knowledge.

B) The proper mechanic is to signal safe as soon as the trail foot passes the bag and then wait for the appeal.

Isn't it the responsibility of an umpire to make the right call? I cannot understand option B when the runner continues safely to 2B or 3B or home. Then the defense also has a 90-foot (plus) advantage to get in their timely appeal. I was also told at a clinic held by REAL umps not to signal safe or point toward home if the runner missed home plate. To choose his words, "It would look pretty foolish if you reverse your call 15 seconds later."

But again, I am not holding the bag of CHIPS on this one either. I am willing to consider another opinion from anyone willing to help me understand what I may have missed at my CLINIQUE.

" When the runner stops at 1B, the margin for CORRECTION also shortens exponentially. Pitcher and catcher may not likely question an umpire {incorrectly} selling SAFE insurance. The defensive coach, who is restricted to the dugout, has very limited opportunity to restore timely order. Any umpire who then reverses his original SAFE call also has to deal with another issue, INTEGRITY. I think this UIC is standing on solid GROUND, not trying to impress us with knowledge." :confused:

" Isn't it the responsibility of an umpire to make the right call? I cannot understand option B when the runner continues safely to 2B or 3B or home. Then the defense also has a 90-foot (plus) advantage to get in their timely appeal. I was also told at a clinic held by REAL umps not to signal safe or point toward home if the runner missed home plate. To choose his words, "It would look pretty foolish if you reverse your call 15 seconds later."" :confused:

Are you George Costanza?:)

No, Lance Cokalinski's evil twin. The serious one!:rolleyes:

Honestly:
 

I do not think that SAump can state a clear statement.

I cannot follow his sentance structure, much less his discussions.

I must be in a "user error" moment since I simply do not understand his points.

That is not rare, by the way.

Let me help you with what you missed at your "CLINIQUE."


"Professional umpires are trained to render the "safe" signal and voice declaration at first base even though the batter-runner missed the base but is considered past the base when the tag of first base is made. This becomes an appeal play and the batter-runner would subsequently be called out for failure to properly touch the base. This is the proper mechanical procedure at all bases involving force plays. On plays which require a tag, professional umpires are instructed to make no call until the runner legally touches the base or the runner is tagged before legally touching the base. "


The reasoning behind this would be that a runner is considered to have legally obtained a missed base as soon as he passes it until properly appealed. All missed bases are appeal plays. As all plays deserve a call, if the umpire signals nothing, then he becomes the 10th man on defense and alerts the defense that they have an appeal available to them. Also, appeals must be unmistakeable, so F3 just touching the bag when he receives the ball can not be considered to be an appeal.

This is the AR for an appeal.

"An appeal should be clearly intended as an appeal, either by a verbal request by the player or an act that unmistakably indicates an appeal to the umpire. A player, inadvertently stepping on the base with a ball in his hand, would not constitute an appeal. Time is not out when an appeal is being made.
Cross References: Appendices 15, 16, 17, 18 "


Tim.

Good Claritee from BU
 

Is this mechanic universally taught at the JE clinic or Pro/NCAA/FED-landia?

Yes, all of the ones that you mentioned use this mechanic.

Tim.

The reason you don't understand is that you were at a makeup store when the rest of the umpires were at a clinic. This explains it all.

The mechanic on this play is often described as "The umpire signals safe ...". I think this is wrong. The mechanic should be, "The umpire does whatever he would do if the runner had touched the bag." Now, it's consistent with the runner going to 2B, etc -- we're not tipping off either side, nor calling something that doesn't need to be called.

In practice, the play at first is "close enough" that we'd normally give a "relaxed" safe signal -- so that's what we should do when the runner misses the bag.

Arguing with a clinician at a clinic is not bright, no matter how wrong the clinician is. Shut your piehole and let the idiot blabber on. Do you expect the clinician to say, "You know, Tim, you're right. I'm wrong, everyone." ?

No, but I expect him to be reasonable and allow things to be discussed. You'll notice in my post that I only pointed out one of his mistakes during the class. The appeal play was pointed out by a friend of mine I work HS game with and the dead ball appeal ruling was questioned by someone I didn't know. I don't know what we're supposed to get out of a clinic if we all just go as "yes men."
Seems like a waste of valuable time and good money if we aren't there to interact and learn something of value.


Tim.

...but Lance will tell ya, if you keep this up, you'll never get the "Big Game" :p

...so check six!

Some clinics are meant to give you value. Some clinics are meant to be a stage for the clinician(s). This is obviously one of the latter clinics and you figure this out pretty quickly, in my experience.

If this is a clinic where you have no future ties with the clinicians, go nuts -- argue and debate all you want. But if you're hoping for future assignments and this guy is involved, do you want to be known as "that guy?"

ROTFLMAO!!!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_11_6.gif

I think BigUmp56 already gave the professional interpretation, which is the same one I use in all of my games. Why do you disagree with the authoritative opinion and accepted mechanic?

I already explained my opinion on this -- whenever a runner misses a base, we should act just as we would have acted had the runner touched the base (with the exception of a tag play at home when both the tag and the touch are missed). That way, we avoid telling either side that there was a missed base.

Some umpires get in the habit of pointing at the base (especially home) when a runner touches it. When they don't point, it tips off the defense. So we (I think all of us) would try to get the umpire to break the habit.

On a close play at first, where BR beats the throw, I signal safe. So, I'd signal safe if BR misses the base (but beats the throw).

On a not-close play at first (maybe F3 celarly drops the ball), we (at least I) don't signal safe. So, if BR misses the base, I won't change to signal safe.

If the runner continued 'safely' to 2B or farther, you obviously didnt have a PLAY at 1B, so NO signal would be necessary, whether he stepped on the bag or not.

You dont have time to signal there, anyway. You better be hustling to beat him to the next bag where a play is developing.

He has no 'point.' Give him 3 more paragraphs and he'll convince himself that Steve Bartman hit the series-winning single in the 2004 World Series.

Why FAKE it?
 

I try to listen for the ball in the mitt while I watch both the runner and first baseman legally touch. I have been taught not to signal safe or out right away. I have been taught to set, read, pause and allow the "dust to settle." I don't signal safe or out unless I am damn sure it's a SAFE or OUT call. Afterall, I am in no hurry to hang myself. You could be sure that my call would be made prior to the baserunner reversing direction after sprinting long past first base.

I have been told its okay to take even more time if its a bangor. It helps sell the proper safe or out call. I try to gather as much info as possible. No one has ever asked me to rule if he is safe or out before. If they do ask, then I would probably signal safe. Now if the first words I hear are "He missed the bag." That would lead me to another entirely different CALL. Now if the runner indicated that he missed the bag by quickly returning to the bag, I don't need to wait for an appeal. It's like self-incriminating evidence. The defense is holding the ball and touching the bag. VERDICT for the DEFENSE.

Well, it should lead to a different call. If the fielder has posession of the ball and is touching the bag and announces "he missed the bag" before the runner has corrected his error, he has just made an unmistakeable appeal.



I think you should consider changing your moinker from SAump to MakeItump. You tend to make it up as you go along. Even when told what the exact professional interpretation is you still have to try to defend the indefensible.


Tim.

:rolleyes: lol

On your tab?
 

I read what you had to say and I agree with most of it. I may consider it now that I have been made aware of it. No one can expect any more.

I really liked the detailed explanation. I expect you to see that we are not that far apart. I hope you recognize that some of us may have been taught the very same things in school. But each person has a unique interpretation on precisely what was said.

I never try to put any words in from my pro-clinic. I certainly didn't carry a tape recorder out there. I may have been too tired and too sore and too sleepy and too hungover too hang on every word out of the pro-instructors mouth. I do remember the THIRST though.

If you do signal safe, and the defense properly appeals, and you signal out; please let me know the results from your evaluators -> the half that disagrees with your version of pro-mechanics.

Over-Simplification
 

You're OUT works fine.

You get HOME faster.

The End!