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Thu Mar 16, 2006, 03:41pm
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This might be kind of long but I saw this question online and it doesnt make any sense to me. It seems the result would be same regardless of the situation. I'm asking this from a little league rule or point of view
WHEN A FIELDER THROWS THE BALL OUT-OF-PLAY, ARE THE RUNNERS AWARDED THE BASE THEY WERE GOING TO, PLUS ONE? Answer: No. If the wild throw is the first play by an infielder, runners are awarded 2 bases from the bases they held at the time of the pitch. If it is the second play by an infielder, or any throw from an outfielder, it is 2 bases from where they were physically positioned when the wild throw was released by the fielder. Not from the time it went out-of-play. It makes no difference which direction they were running at the time of the throw. If all runners have advanced at least one base before the release of the wild throw that was the first by an infielder, all runners are awarded 2 bases from where they were positioned at the time of the release. Rule 7.05(g) & APPROVED RULING. If the pitcher steps off the rubber before making a pick-off attempt, he is considered a fielder and runners are awarded two bases if the throw goes into dead ball area. The runners get two bases from the time the pitcher releases in the 1st example. If there is a 2nd over throw and it goes out of bounds they get two bases from where they are. What if there is a runner 1/2 between 1st and 2nd? Would they move twice the distance from where they are - which would put the runner bewteen 3rd and home - does the runner get to go home. Or would 2nd base be considered the first base stopping the runner on 3rd as the 2nd base that he is awarded. If anyone could help explaining this in a clearer way it would be appreciated. Thanks! Mike 
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Thu Mar 16, 2006, 03:48pm
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The runner between 1st and 2nd is awarded two bases from the time of the throw. The two bases are 2nd and 3rd. Since the ball is dead, the runner remains on 3rd (not 1/2 way down the line) until the ball is in play. (Since this is LL, assuming 12U, the runner stays on 3rd until a pitch or attempted play.) -LilLeaguer
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Thu Mar 16, 2006, 04:00pm
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So basically there is no difference in little league since the runners can't leave the base til the ball crosses the plate. If the first fielder makes the over throw it is two bases from when the ball was pitched. If a 2nd fielder over throws the ball out of bands it is still bases - the one they are going to plus 1. Thanks for the quick reply
Mike
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Thu Mar 16, 2006, 04:07pm
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Let me try to clear it up.
The first play by an infielder the award is 2 bases from the time of pitch (TOP). If there was a runner at 1st at the TOP, he gets 3rd base on a ball thrown into dead ball territory. Second, or any subsequent play by an infielder (such as the throw from F4 on a 6-4-3 double play attempt, for example), or any throw from an outfielder, the award is 2 bases from the position of the runner (meaning the last base legally touched, not his actual position between the bases) at the time of the throw (TOT). If F9 throws the ball into the 3rd base dugout, for example, and the runner is between 1st and 2nd when F9 released the throw, he is entitled to 2 bases, which would be 2nd and 3rd, so he ends up at 3rd. Just remember: 1st play by infielder = 2 bases from TOP 2nd play or by outfielder = 2 bases from TOT
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Thu Mar 16, 2006, 04:12pm
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Forget about "one plus one," no matter how often you hear it. Abel on 1B, runs on Baker's line drive that F4 spears. As Abel is returning to 1B, F4 throws the ball away. Abel gets 3B (of course he still has to retouch). He does not get the base he is going to (1B) plus one (2B). Unfortunately, this is a common misconception.
__________________
greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Thu Mar 16, 2006, 06:13pm
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Thu Mar 16, 2006, 06:35pm
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No, like greymule said, forget the 'one plus one' or 'next base plus one' stuff. The award is 'two bases,' period.
PJUMP needs to learn to refer to baserunning awards as the rules are written, so if asked by a coach "why are you awarding him home on this play, Blue?," he can give the correct response.
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Thu Mar 16, 2006, 09:45pm
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I had one of these on Tuesday. Throw by F7 to F5 went out of play in the 3B dugout. The release was after the batter had passed 1B. I was BU and saw F7 bobble a ground ball, turned and saw the batter touch 1B and then turned back to see F7 release the throw towards 3B. I awarded the batter 3b and the coach coach comes outs to the foul line to ask why and I explained it to him and I hear "it's 1 plus 1 from him".
It's 1 from the rubber (on a pitch that goes out of play), 2 from an infielder TOP, 2 from an outfielder TOT. And of course it's 2 from an infielder TOT if it's the second play by an infielder.
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Thu Mar 16, 2006, 10:26pm
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Don't let "2nd play" by an infield confuse you, either. In this case, fielding the batted ball is not considered a play. If F6 fields a grounder, then steps on 2B for the force on R1 he's made play #1, the throw to 1B to complete the DP is play #2. If he fields the ball and throws to first, the throw to 1B is his first play.
Also, to add to the confusion, if BR AND all other runners have advanced one base before the first play by an infielder it is 2 bases from TOT. (As was the case mentioned by DG.) Take your time and go through the rule slowly. Write it down. What's been said thus far has been dead on. Don't let it all confuse you, though. Just read it, and re-read it. Break it down like everyone has done here. Break it down so YOU can understand it all. Best advice I've heard - Forget the 1+1 stuff. For the most part it's a two base award - from when is the catch. Exception would be a throw from F1 in contact with the rubber (one base).
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Thu Mar 16, 2006, 11:35pm
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Fri Mar 17, 2006, 12:07am
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Fri Mar 17, 2006, 12:44am
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I was going to add all that confusing stuff, but then I thought, "hey, that would be too confusing!"
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Fri Mar 17, 2006, 05:04pm
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Fri Mar 17, 2006, 05:15pm
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Man in blue.
I never thought about this but I want to ask to be sure. In your unassisted double play attempt scenario, if F6 steps on 2nd and throws the ball into the dead ball area, and the B/R is already past 1st base, does the B/R get 3rd base because it is the second play by an infielder? Even though he only threw the ball once? I have not seen this but I want to be sure I make the right call if I do.
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Tony Smerk OHSAA Certified Class 1 Official Sheffield Lake, Ohio
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Fri Mar 17, 2006, 05:26pm
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On the unassisted DP. If BR is past first base when F6 THROWS (i.e. releases) the ball, then yes - third base. Why did F6 throw the ball though?
 If BR is still headed to 1st when it's thrown, but past it when it goes DBT, it's still 2nd - the award is from Time Of Throw.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
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