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-   -   JV Umps get their due !!!! (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/25324-jv-umps-get-their-due.html)

Rich Tue Mar 07, 2006 07:56am
Re: NLump50 Nailed It !
 
Quote:
Originally posted by nickrego
The proper solution is to have 2 man crews for every game.

Then, you can pay the umpires less money for the sub-varsity games, in all fairness.

Then, the sub-varsity umpires would have an opportunity to develop the skills necessary to be a higher paid Varsity umpire.

As it is now, working alone, they only get good at working alone. So then you drop them on a field with a partner or two, and they fumble around like it was their first time, because they are really starting over - to a certain degree.

Schools will not pay for two umpires at the sub-varsity level, because they don't have the money, not because they don't think it’s necessary.

I worked my way up to a Varsity schedule several years ago. I love it when they assign me a sub-varsity partner. Why, they still know how to hustle, and they want to improve (to work their way up to varsity). I'd rather deal with a mess due to a new guy trying to learn, than the messes I have to deal with working with partners that are too pompous to do a good job.

I get asked about 3 or 4 times each year to fill in on a sub-varsity game. I take the assignment without hesitation. Most of our varsity umpires turn their noses up at such a demeaning idea. When I get to that point, I think it will be time for me to quit.
Why? I don't work subvarsity games if I can help it during the school season. With my varsity and college schedule, I have precious few days left in April and May. My choice is -- work a JV game or stay home with my family. I choose the latter. So do many other umpires I know, and it doesn't mean we are turning our noses up at anything.

I don't find it demeaning, though.

David B Tue Mar 07, 2006 09:11am
Re: Re: NLump50 Nailed It !
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by nickrego
The proper solution is to have 2 man crews for every game.

Then, you can pay the umpires less money for the sub-varsity games, in all fairness.

Then, the sub-varsity umpires would have an opportunity to develop the skills necessary to be a higher paid Varsity umpire.

As it is now, working alone, they only get good at working alone. So then you drop them on a field with a partner or two, and they fumble around like it was their first time, because they are really starting over - to a certain degree.

Schools will not pay for two umpires at the sub-varsity level, because they don't have the money, not because they don't think it’s necessary.

I worked my way up to a Varsity schedule several years ago. I love it when they assign me a sub-varsity partner. Why, they still know how to hustle, and they want to improve (to work their way up to varsity). I'd rather deal with a mess due to a new guy trying to learn, than the messes I have to deal with working with partners that are too pompous to do a good job.

I get asked about 3 or 4 times each year to fill in on a sub-varsity game. I take the assignment without hesitation. Most of our varsity umpires turn their noses up at such a demeaning idea. When I get to that point, I think it will be time for me to quit.
Why? I don't work subvarsity games if I can help it during the school season. With my varsity and college schedule, I have precious few days left in April and May. My choice is -- work a JV game or stay home with my family. I choose the latter. So do many other umpires I know, and it doesn't mean we are turning our noses up at anything.

I don't find it demeaning, though.
Rich has it exactly right. It used to be an honor to work the varsity. Now its almost a step down in pay.

I schedule our JV and Jr. High games and they get two 90 minute games and get paid $65.

So they are home in 3 hours with $65.

I get to work the varsity game and all I get paid is $50. (could be two hours but could be four hours)

As far as time and money, its more lucrative to work the lower level games.

thanks
David

JRutledge Tue Mar 07, 2006 09:53am
Re: Re: Re: NLump50 Nailed It !
 
Quote:
Originally posted by David B
Rich has it exactly right. It used to be an honor to work the varsity. Now its almost a step down in pay.

I schedule our JV and Jr. High games and they get two 90 minute games and get paid $65.

So they are home in 3 hours with $65.

I get to work the varsity game and all I get paid is $50. (could be two hours but could be four hours)

As far as time and money, its more lucrative to work the lower level games.

thanks
David
It still is an honor to work varsity games. Do not let people fool you or try to convince you otherwise. You might have people that complain they do not want to work the post season, but when they get "overlooked" for those assignments these are the biggest group of people complaining they were not picked or give you multiple reasons why they should have. Usually the people that say they do not want to work varsity games either are passed their prime (and they know it) or are not good enough in the first place to work those games. Of course money is a factor, but at some point if that is all you are good for, you will get a reputation for being about that. Funny thing is the guys that only do it for the money do not put on the proper uniforms or behave in the most professional way possible. So it all works out in the end.

Peace

PeteBooth Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:38am
<i> Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser </i>


<b> I think you're wrong. I think JV officials should be paid in such a manner that encourages them to become good enough to work varsity games. In other words, if you're getting $58 for varsity, I'd pay about $35 for JV, both single and 2-man. I'd charge the schools more as an association, but that money wouldn't go to the umpire -- it would go into the association.

The goal should be to get schools to hire 2 officials, not make it attractive for the officials to go out and work 1-man. </b>

Rich in theory I agree with you but not in reality. Ultimately it depends upon where you live and the size of the school budgets.

If you start "Low-balling" JV umpires you will lose them to other Youth Organizations who pay for umpires. Using your example; why should I take a $35.00 FEE, give up vacation days at work (School games start at around the 4-4:30 range) when I can work a Babe-Ruth game after work, not loose any vacation/personal days for the same amount.

Also, at least from my experience school ball is more about politics than who is really qualified.

In Summary I agree with your philosophy but depending upon where you live it will not work.

Here's how the assignments are in my area:

Varsity - 2 person crews all the time
JV, Feshman, Modified - Fill in as needed. In other words if possible assign 2 person crews but the reality is there simply isn't enough umpires to go around so the association has to make it "somewhat attractive" to umpire the lower levels. Cutting the FEES or asking the Schools to "foot the bill" is NOT the answer. School Budgets are "Locked in" for the most part. If the school budgets do need to be cut athletics is one of the first places they go unless it's profitable like say Texas HS Football.

Pete Booth



[Edited by PeteBooth on Mar 7th, 2006 at 10:40 AM]

David B Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:30am
Re: Re: Re: Re: NLump50 Nailed It !
 
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by David B
Rich has it exactly right. It used to be an honor to work the varsity. Now its almost a step down in pay.

I schedule our JV and Jr. High games and they get two 90 minute games and get paid $65.

So they are home in 3 hours with $65.

I get to work the varsity game and all I get paid is $50. (could be two hours but could be four hours)

As far as time and money, its more lucrative to work the lower level games.

thanks
David
It still is an honor to work varsity games. Do not let people fool you or try to convince you otherwise. You might have people that complain they do not want to work the post season, but when they get "overlooked" for those assignments these are the biggest group of people complaining they were not picked or give you multiple reasons why they should have. Usually the people that say they do not want to work varsity games either are passed their prime (and they know it) or are not good enough in the first place to work those games. Of course money is a factor, but at some point if that is all you are good for, you will get a reputation for being about that. Funny thing is the guys that only do it for the money do not put on the proper uniforms or behave in the most professional way possible. So it all works out in the end.

Peace
Jeff, I agree with you about the varsity games - that's where you get your reputation.

The way I've looked at it, if they younger guys are getting paid well, they might want to stick around.
I don't know about other areas, but we have a severe shortage of HS umpires.

We have six schools that play 9th grade and Jr High ball, that's 12 umpires every Monday and Thursday.

The young guys are guaranteed work, all of the games are DH so they get to work plate and bases, and best of all, most of the HS varsity coaches are watching the games - they know a good umpire when they see one and that might count when they finally get a shot at varsity games.

thanks
David

miump Tue Mar 07, 2006 12:52pm
I believe that if an ump does a game by his/herself they should be paid the pay of two umps. Schools submit a bugget every year and within that budget the pay for two umps is included. I also feel that jv or varisty should be paid the same, the game is has the same amout of innings the same amount of players the same field etc... I also feel that if the schools paid for two umps when only one is avaiable they will try harder to get two umps to the game. I worked some game where I felt I should have been paid for a four man crew lol.

Rich Tue Mar 07, 2006 06:56pm
Quote:
Originally posted by miump
I believe that if an ump does a game by his/herself they should be paid the pay of two umps. Schools submit a bugget every year and within that budget the pay for two umps is included. I also feel that jv or varisty should be paid the same, the game is has the same amout of innings the same amount of players the same field etc... I also feel that if the schools paid for two umps when only one is avaiable they will try harder to get two umps to the game. I worked some game where I felt I should have been paid for a four man crew lol.
I believe the moon is made of green cheese. I feel happy when a puppy licks my face.

David B Wed Mar 08, 2006 08:48am
Now that's funny!
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by miump
I believe that if an ump does a game by his/herself they should be paid the pay of two umps. Schools submit a bugget every year and within that budget the pay for two umps is included. I also feel that jv or varisty should be paid the same, the game is has the same amout of innings the same amount of players the same field etc... I also feel that if the schools paid for two umps when only one is avaiable they will try harder to get two umps to the game. I worked some game where I felt I should have been paid for a four man crew lol.
I believe the moon is made of green cheese. I feel happy when a puppy licks my face.
A good laugh to start my day!

Thanks
David


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