WBC Umpires

[mattmets]

From espn.com:

NEW YORK -- While many of the best players are getting ready for the first World Baseball Classic, it appears the top umpires won't be calling the tournament.


Talks between Major League Baseball and its umpires' union broke down Wednesday. The commissioner's office also has been negotiating with the Association of Minor League Umpires, and minor league umps are likely to officiate the 16-nation tournament, which runs from March 3-20.


"As of today's date, at this point it does not appear that major league umpires will be working the World Cup," World Umpires Association president John Hirschbeck said.


Rob Manfred, executive vice president for labor relations in the commissioner's office, has been handling talks with the umpires.


"No matter what happens, we will have umpires working these games that are familiar to major league fans because they will be, at a minimum, guys who have worked games as part of the fill-in process," Manfred said.


The tournament is being run by the commissioner's office and the Major League Baseball Players Association.


Gene Orza, the MLBPA's chief operating officer, said 22-24 minor league umpires would be used along with about eight international umpires. The major league umpires were seeking more money than WBC organizers were willing to pay.


"The umpires were looking for far too much," Orza said.

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So....anyone heard anything about the minor league guys and their labor struggles?

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Does anyone recall what I said about the MLB guys supporting their little brothers? They are probably bracing themselves for having to work more ST games because of the MiLB debacle.

Don't be surprised if we don't see Olympic caliber umpires calling those games; the series is called the World Baseball Classic after all. There are some terrific umpires in Canada, Central America, Asia and Europe. Some NCAA boys with former Pro experience will definetly be available as well. It'll be interesting to see what the MLB umpires association was asking for and how the media percieves their greed.

[Thump]

Ummm...the MLB guys aren't going to have to work more ST games because of the MiLB guys. MLB guys won't work Minor League Spring training. If anything, they did the MiLB guys a favor, because now it's in the MiLB guys hands as to how to handle the WBC.

[mcrowder]

Orange - that was inappropriate. Disagree if you need to, but cut out the name calling.

Thump - I don't understand your comment, and it may be because you misunderstood WWTB's.

With the MiLB possible strike, MLB umpires are more likely to work MLB spring games. Had there been no MiLB issues, MiLB umpires would be working MLB spring games.

Is that clearer?

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

I just noticed that Orange Ump's post and my reply were deleted. I am mystified why mine was taken off the board, since I simply pointed out that this topic was discussed earlier and beaten to death. I asked him to research the matter and come back to us with a reasoned opinion about the topic, rather than just cast apersions. How is that worthy of being deleted? Of all the inflammatory rhetoric on this board, that was deemed imprudent? Come on, mick and bob - that wasn't even close to being caustic and it definetly stayed on topic.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
I just noticed that Orange Ump's post and my reply were deleted. I am mystified why mine was taken off the board, since I simply pointed out that this topic was discussed earlier and beaten to death. I asked him to research the matter and come back to us with a reasoned opinion about the topic, rather than just cast apersions. How is that worthy of being deleted? Of all the inflammatory rhetoric on this board, that was deemed imprudent? Come on, mick and bob - that wasn't even close to being caustic and it definetly stayed on topic.

One good turn deserves another, so I must agree with WWTB here. He said nothing that deserved being deleted.

[Thump]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Orange - that was inappropriate. Disagree if you need to, but cut out the name calling.

Thump - I don't understand your comment, and it may be because you misunderstood WWTB's.

With the MiLB possible strike, MLB umpires are more likely to work MLB spring games. Had there been no MiLB issues, MiLB umpires would be working MLB spring games.

Is that clearer?

The MiLB umpires are boycotting MiLB spring training. I have heard no news that the AAA guys were planning on boycotting MLB spring training as well. I'm pretty sure if MLB wanted the AAA up and down guys to work, they would work, which is happening because now they've been asked by MLB to work the WBC, and they are. I just fail to see how the MLB umpires are ignoring their little brothers. If they worked the WBC...then they'd just not be giving the AAA guys a chance to work that.

Obviously there is very little the MLB umpires can do for the MiLB guys. They are seperate unions, and if an MLB guy were do actually DO something, or boycott something, in protest of what is going on, then they'd be at risk as losing their job...not something I think even the MiLB guys want them to risk. So anybody who is expecting the MLB umpires to bend over backwards for the AMLU is obviously dreaming.

I just don't think the MLB not wanting to work the WBC (when they already have a pretty sweet gig doing MLB spring training, so I can understand them not giving that up to work another month of competitive half MLB half amatuer baseball) has ANYTHING to do with them not supporting the MiLB. I honestly feel had their been no MiLB issues...we'd still see the MiLB umpires working the WBC games.

Any why would the media care if they are MLB umpires or MiLB umpires? Nobody cares about the umpire, and the games goes on with or without them.

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
I just noticed that Orange Ump's post and my reply were deleted.

it was WJR

[mjumpire]

Hey Guys,

I am a professional umpire who will be posting on here. I'm wishing to remain anonymous. To clear some stuff up... AAA umpires will be working MLB Spring Training at least the ones that are chosen to work MLB Spring. And specific AAA umpires will be working WBC. MLB offered them a deal and they accepted. I will not be on here pleading my case and asking all of you not to cross any picket lines. What you all choose to do is your business and personal decision. What I will be doing is answering any questions you guys may have that may help clear things up for you guys. I will answer any question you guys have to the best of my knowledge. So I may not be able to answer every question but I'll try. Thanks.

[mick]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
I just noticed that Orange Ump's post and my reply were deleted. I am mystified why mine was taken off the board, since I simply pointed out that this topic was discussed earlier and beaten to death. I asked him to research the matter and come back to us with a reasoned opinion about the topic, rather than just cast apersions. How is that worthy of being deleted? Of all the inflammatory rhetoric on this board, that was deemed imprudent? Come on, mick and bob - that wasn't even close to being caustic and it definetly stayed on topic.

Didn't see it.
Can't guess.
mick

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
I just noticed that Orange Ump's post and my reply were deleted. I am mystified why mine was taken off the board, since I simply pointed out that this topic was discussed earlier and beaten to death. I asked him to research the matter and come back to us with a reasoned opinion about the topic, rather than just cast apersions. How is that worthy of being deleted? Of all the inflammatory rhetoric on this board, that was deemed imprudent? Come on, mick and bob - that wasn't even close to being caustic and it definetly stayed on topic.

I deleted it, I'm sure. In general, if I delete a post, I also delete subsequent posts that refer to the offending post. iirc, there was orange's initial flame, then two responses. It seemed best to remove all three in an attempt to prevent any more flare-ups.

[mick]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

I deleted it, I'm sure. In general, if I delete a post, I also delete subsequent posts that refer to the offending post. iirc, there was orange's initial flame, then two responses. It seemed best to remove all three in an attempt to prevent any more flare-ups.

I agree with that thought, bob.
I've done the same thing.
One post is an easy delete, and the next post, which may very well be intelligent, polite and civil, may unfortunately have the *rejected post* quoted.

So they both go away.
mick

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

Okay, that's fair...I just want it on the record that this was the first post I've made (since returning) that had been deleted. I try to stick to the topic and my retorts are usually equal to the offending remark. I say usually, because I've been known to antagonize a tad.

mj - are you in the union? If so, your remarks may be met with some skepticism. While most of us can appreciate the need to increase salaries for MiLB umpires, some of us consider a walkout to be dubious. Your professional careers will be destroyed and America has many more concerns than what an apprentice is earning. I'm certain that you find that term grating, but you are being paid to learn a craft. Yes, most of us believe that you have mastery of balls and strikes, but the WUA has a far different take on it. Like journeymen, they had to prove themselves through various tests (Rookie, Short A, Long A, AA, AAA) before they earned the right to make a good living. Too many Americans are in the same boat. They work hard for the pay they get and are underappreciated. If they walk away from their job, they can't complain that they were only fighting for what is right. Those arguments should have been made at the bargaining table a year ago. MiLB must have thought the union was asking for too much or they would have acceded.

I think that another misstep was asking for control over corrective action against managers, coaches and players. Yes, they hop around and jump levels - deal with it, you are supposed to be umpires. If the idiot crosses a line, dump his ***. You guys talk and know who is who; word gets around. This may have been a Christmas wish but it is a demand that may be best left behind.

Go get the money you need and let the league worry about administration problems. The only way you will keep the dream alive is to stay in uniform. You've worked too hard, spent so much money and sacrificed too much to abandon it now. I'm too old to worry about what a twenty year old makes; I just want to see the game. Many of the members here would love to have their youth back and dedicate themselves to your goal. Remember how special it felt when you finished school and were a chosen one.

[Edited by WhatWuzThatBlue on Feb 24th, 2006 at 07:57 PM]

[mick]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
Okay, that's fair...I just want it on the record that this was the first post I've made (since returning) that had been deleted. I try to stick to the topic and my retorts are usually equal to the offending remark. I say usually, because I've been known to antagonize a tad.

WhatWuzThatBlue,
I appreciate that look.
And I'm glad you understand.

About that record thing, ... I doubt that there is one.
We're officials. We deal with the current play. Let someone else keep score. It's not my job.
mick

[mjumpire]

Whatz That Blue,
I am in the union and I'm not sure what part of my comments can be met with some skepticism but either way...

To reply to your comments one at a time, I'm glad that you can appreciate the need for a salary increase being that the Milb umpires haven't received one in over ten years. How do you suggest that we ask for a raise? That's a great thing about this country. Is that some times in this country not all people are appreciated for their work and they have the right to advocate for themselves. I would hope as a citizen in this great country you should encourage that. Instead of just rolling over and complaining about it. We went to MiLB and said we believe that our salaries need to be adjusted with the current economy. We are not asking to get rich, we just want them up with todays standards. And MiLB said word for word, " Its not that we don't have the money to pay you, we do, it's that we don't want to pay you." As an umpire yourself, I'm sure you don't let yourself get pushed around by any one, a coach, a player, or even an employer who doesn't respect your services. As for the "Apprentice" comment. I truly believe that we can not be considered apprentices. I would like to know any other profession that you stick to apprentices together and say, go learn your craft. In most, if not all professions, apprentices are paired up with journey men or seasoned professionals and taught their craft. Now moving on to the managers... We as umpires could care less if managers or coaches jump levels. It makes no difference to us! I don't understand where that comes from. What we were concerned with was once they would cross the line and we would get rid of them, is that we were being told to keep them in the game when they should have been ejected. We don't always feel safe at our jobs. A fellow co-worker was telling of a time this year when they were threatened to be raped with a bat after the game. Obviously this guy had already been ejected. As a matter of fact this was the 6th or 7th time that he had been ejected that season. The player was indeed waiting for them by their van (with a bat) and started trying to stir things up. they reported all of this to the league and he was fined $25! No suspension. No support from the league for them. Nothing! These are some of the things we are trying to get worked out. Some of the leagues aren't dealing with administrative problems. We don't want to walk out. We want to work. But we also know when we need to put our foot down and stand up for what’s right. I do respect your point of veiw and appreciate the feedback. In my position I just disagree.