Balk or bad mechanics?

[umpduck11]

Originally posted by SAump
I repeat, "His motion must be consistent throughout the game." That also includes any (LONG) pause, which I will now take before my next delivery. By the way, TIME is a relative concept.

Quotation marks (" ") mean that what is inside them is
a verbatim quote. Please enlighten me as to where the
statement in your quote is located.That is, if you can,
of course.

[Dave Hensley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Sorry, chief, you're just making stuff up. A pitcher can deliver differently every pitch of the game if he so chooses, as long as the umpire doesn't judge a quick-return pitch.

Do me a favor. Find your little pearl of wisdom somewhere in the pitching rules or case plays and post them for we unwashed masses.

"Hey, Blue, that pitcher is balking!"

"It's OK, coach. The balk is a part of his natural motion."

[D-Man]

Holy Steel Curtain SA, you are defensive!

Your original post mentions a doe. That's either a female deer or the note of C. Neither one can commit a balk.

The only words that come close to what you may be talking about are in 6-2-4d. Balk: "failing to pitch to the batter in a continuous motion immediately after any movement of any part of the body such as he habitually uses in his delivery" This dosen't even imply that a pitcher does anything consistently. It says if he starts a motion that commits him to pitch and he doesn't, we call a balk.

Also, please don't call guys out. I don't see the need. You are making what seems to be an absurd point that may just be worded badly. Just like on the field, calm down, take a deep breath...O.K., tell me what you saw.

D-MAN

[DG]

SA is alone on an island, a very small island. For all the new guys out there, like the one who started this post, pay heed, there is good advice to be had here, and there is some that is best ignored.

[Edited by DG on Feb 19th, 2006 at 11:26 PM]

[SAump]

DG said, "Mechanics do not have to be consistent throughout the game."

Are you a pitching coach DG? The opposite of consistent is inconsistent. Your point is just as absurd as the largeones, which is identical to yours. If the pitching is inconsistent, then it isn't very GOOD.

"Most good pitchers will vary their delivery with runners on base so base stealers don't get a consistent read which will make base stealing easy."

The word consistent does not mean SAME and I never used the word SAME. There were other comments about the set position and some about the stretch. It was a stretch to believe that consistent motion/mechanics means the same as "the same" pitching delivery. But somehow these comments were later attributed to me. Excuse me, I do believe the record shows that my comments were ONLY about the CONSISTENT mechanics and a couple of balk interpretations.

"As long as the delivery is legal, there is nothing illegal about varying the delivery from pitch to pitch or batter to batter."

I do love the 1st half of that sentence, it just about covers everything legal. Did I or anyone else present that legal sitch as an illegal balk? I think NOT. But you put me in that delicate position of being in the opposite corner once again, didn't you?

In summary, taking my comments out of context makes DG appear to be a more intelligent writer. In reality, DG's comment are more than absurd on face value alone. They are even more absurd when he tries to attach them to anyone else. I refuse to discuss a sitch with one hand tied behind my back. I never even hinted at anything DG said in his opening thread. For him to put me in a box and close it like that is very cute. It's funnier when everyone here jumps on the same ole bandwagon. If that is any indication of his other skills, I wouldn't brag about them.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by SAump
DG said, "Mechanics do not have to be consistent throughout the game."

Are you a pitching coach DG? The opposite of consistent is inconsistent. Your point is just as absurd as the largeones, which is identical to yours. If the pitching is inconsistent, then it isn't very GOOD.

"Most good pitchers will vary their delivery with runners on base so base stealers don't get a consistent read which will make base stealing easy."

The word consistent does not mean SAME and I never used the word SAME. There were other comments about the set position and some about the stretch. It was a stretch to believe that consistent motion/mechanics means the same as "the same" pitching delivery. But somehow these comments were later attributed to me. Excuse me, I do believe the record shows that my comments were ONLY about the CONSISTENT mechanics and a couple of balk interpretations.

"As long as the delivery is legal, there is nothing illegal about varying the delivery from pitch to pitch or batter to batter."

I do love the 1st half of that sentence, it just about covers everything legal. Did I or anyone else present that legal sitch as an illegal balk? I think NOT. But you put me in that delicate position of being in the opposite corner once again, didn't you?

In summary, taking my comments out of context makes DG appear to be a more intelligent writer. In reality, DG's comment are more than absurd on face value alone. They are even more absurd when he tries to attach them to anyone else. I refuse to discuss a sitch with one hand tied behind my back. I never even hinted at anything DG said in his opening thread. For him to put me in a box and close it like that is very cute. It's funnier when everyone here jumps on the same ole bandwagon. If that is any indication of his other skills, I wouldn't brag about them.

Is your name GW Bush? It is ok to say I screwed up, you really won't be thrown off the forum. You have taken this beyond nauseaum, absurdity and stupidity.

Three words, "I am wrong".

The truth will set you free.

[BigUmp56]

Originally posted by SAump
DG said, "Mechanics do not have to be consistent throughout the game."

Are you a pitching coach DG? The opposite of consistent is inconsistent. Your point is just as absurd as the largeones, which is identical to yours. If the pitching is inconsistent, then it isn't very GOOD.

Even if what you're saying about inconsistent pitching not being very good, which by the way isn't true, that still wouldn't make inconsistency illegal.

Originally posted by SAump
The word consistent does not mean SAME and I never used the word SAME. There were other comments about the set position and some about the stretch. It was a stretch to believe that consistent motion/mechanics means the same as "the same" pitching delivery.

Did you really believe this last pearl of wisdom?

The defintion of consistency is to maintain a steadfast adherence to the same form.


Tim.

[mcrowder]

Can we simplify this a bit, so I can clarify for myself what SA is trying to say...

SA, in answering, don't refer to any previous posts or quotes of you or misquotes of you from earlier in this thread. Just answer these two questions as shortly as you possibly can.

A) 1-1, 4th inning, R1. Pitcher uses a slidestep, throws a ball. Next pitch, pitcher does not use a slidestep, throws a strike. Everything else being the same, are you calling a balk?

B) Pitcher has been throwing submarine style the entire game, a la Chad Bradford. In the 5th inning, the first pitch is an overhand screwball. Balk or no?

[Tim C]

Following mcrowder's rules:

During the first 5 1/3 innings of play F1 has been using a full wind-up before throwing each pitch when appropriate.

With a count of 2 Balls and 2 strikes the pitcher, while legally following all rules that determine a quick return pitch (i.e. he peers in and takes his gin, etc), he then delivers his pitcher with little or no wind-up, do you call a balk?

[BigUmp56]

I think I'm going to have to eject the pitcher when I see him "peer in and take his gin." I don't need a pitcher hammered out there on the mound!


Sorry, Tee. Just couldn't resist.


Tim.

[SAump]

Did you find the SAME definition in your dictionary?
He maintained a steadfast adherence to the same form.

A simple search of defintion of consistent reveals the following.

con·sis·tent [ kən sÃ*stənt ]
adjective
Definitions:
1. coherent: reasonably or logically harmonious
The evidence is consistent with the defendant's statement.
Their accounts of the incident just aren't consistent.
2. reliable: able to maintain a particular standard or repeat a particular task with minimal variation
He's one of the most consistent hitters in the league.
3. NOT APPLICABLE TO THIS THREAD
4. logic free of contradiction: containing no provable contradiction

Let's see together:
1. See coherent or harmonious: kinda reminds me of continuous fluid-like motion or frequency, like habitual
2. See reliable: maintain standard w/ minimal variation
Did you happen to see what they said about HITTERS? I wonder if the same thing is true about good pitchers? Can't be cause SAump said so, could it?
3) A math thing: You wouldn't understand.
4) NO contradiction: Have I not maintained my point of view all along? I would say so. It was NOT because I love to argue the same identical thing over and over. It was because I consistently made the point using very different words. The words which others have taken out of CONTEXT are NOT CONSISTENT with my original statements.

I said he must be consistent, whatever form he chooses to use (ala Fernando's 3/4 back twist or the underhanded ankle guy). I suppose everybody thought I said pitchers must have the same motion for 3/4 pitch or underhand pitch. But again, I never said that because it is impossible Toodles. See you want me to say that a pitcher must maintain the same form (100%) with absolutely NO variation. But I already said each pitcher may have his own quirks. I also pointed out how pitchers with very different pitching styles are still consistently LEGAL.

SO don't be too disappointed if I don't let the ambidextrous RHP become a LHP in the same half-inning, by rule.

Later Toodles....

[Tim C]

See, SAUmp cannot answer a simple "yes" or "no" question.

We all tried and now it is time to simply "give up".

One guy doesn't get it.

Sad, sad I tell you.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Tim C
See, SAUmp cannot answer a simple "yes" or "no" question.

We all tried and now it is time to simply "give up".

One guy doesn't get it.

Sad, sad I tell you.

Why are you surprised? This is a guy who thinks baseballs can defy the laws of physics.

[mcrowder]

As I posted earlier, a fastball CAN rise. I can prove it mathematically, and yes, I was a physics major.

Of course, to rise, it must be thrown at over 135 MPH...

PS - by RULE, an ambidextrous pitcher can pitch to 1 batter righty and the next lefty. He just can't switch during a single batter.

I believe the real life example of this's name was Monte Williams in the Expos farm system, about 5 years ago.

[GarthB]

Sorry, every physicist I contacted, (4) including one at the Fermi Lab, has stated that a pitched baseball cannot rise as it crosses the plate.

Add to that, the only ML baseball pitcher with a degree in physics who, while acknowleging that some active pitchers believe in the myth, also knows better. But all that was said before. No need to start the debate over again.