Well, perhaps you were that guy at the plate once who yelled to the catcher after a slide/tag: "Show me the ball! Show me the ball!"

Here, gestures the catcher.

"Safe!" yells "that guy."

In amateur ball, you simply can't wait on safes at first.

What am I missing?

Runner beats the ball to 1B, you call him safe as soon as the bag is touched. What are we waiting for? Let's not make this too complicated.

Bob P.

Sal,
 

When I wrote:

"I certainly have no intent to start an argument with you Sal . . ."

It was not about YOU being argumentative it was, as always, about me being argumentative.

The fact remains:

I totally disagree with your positioning on the timing on the safe call at first base.

See it . . . call it! As soon as it happens.

SYAAUSNY,

While I certainly understand where you and Carl are coming from, I feel that verbalizing and emphatically calling someone safe when the ball is on the ground and everyone in the park knows the runner is safe draws unnecessary attention to yourself (ie Master of the Obvious).

Carl mentioned that waiting on safe calls is "bush", I feel that selling calls that don't need to be sold can appear to be just as "bush".

I think enough has been said and as you stated before, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Take care

[Edited by Sal Giaco on Feb 17th, 2006 at 11:44 AM]

For those who are interested, I have hosted the images that greymule was talking about earlier from his DVD. You can view the very simple page I put up at http://briancurtin.com/40s_umpiring.html. Its nothing flashy, just has a bunch of the pictures that were talked about so you can see for yourself. Click on the small images for the full size ones.

http://briancurtin.com/40s_umpiring.html

Feel free to link that page on other sites you visit, and/or post the images directly to other sites you visit.

[Edited by briancurtin on Feb 22nd, 2006 at 02:57 AM]

Thanks B . . .
 

From viewing the last picture the BU's timing is EXACTLY as I hope mine would be on the same exact play.

Note where the ball is in relation to the glove and the position of the runner.

There should be a comment inserted here: something about a picture being worth 10,000 words.

Spot On!

Many thanks, Brian.

I posted the photos of the 4th ball of two intentional walks because of how far outside the catchers stood. From the film itself, it seems that the catchers were planting themselves way outside before the release.

The catchers also often stood up as the pitcher was winding up and then moved down into the crouch as the pitcher's arm came around. Of all the differences between modern baseball and play in the 1940s, that one may be the most striking.

The photo entitled "Positioning" shows where the umps usually called plays at 1B. This was a grounder to 2B. Often they were practically on top of the bag in foul territory.

The photos of the batter with one foot apparently over the front line also reveal the lack of an inner line of the box. However, in other games, the inner line was clearly there. Maybe the groundskeepers found themselves out of lime before that game.

It is also possible that the picture of what the film claims is the first batter of the game is actually a picture of a later at bat of the same player. In those days, with their limited photographic resources, the filmmakers often did things like that. The inner line might have been rubbed away by that time (though the outer lines do look pretty good). It might also explain how the baselines got destroyed before any play had occurred. On the other hand, the films indicate that the baselines were not redrawn before every game. Evidently, as long as some kind of line was visible, they didn't bother putting new lime down, even for the World Series.

[Edited by greymule on Feb 22nd, 2006 at 09:31 AM]

Well,
 

In my neck of the woods I cannot remember the last time there was a inside line drawn on a batter's box.

In this area an inner line would be considered "little league" in nature.

We worked a playoff game out of our local area last year. When we got to the home plate conference the plate umpire rubbed both inner lines out with his foot.

We don't have inner lines in the area, by choice.

Strange: There are a few coaches in this area who teach that maneuver for the catcher. I hate it, of course, since he often sets <i>after</i> the release. I'm told that the catcher can track the ball better. I don't believe that although there are many major league umpires who follow the same procedure. It's part and parcel of the Jim Evans "heel/toe, heel/toe" stance, slipping into the lock/load as the pitch is on the way.

I'm also told that it allows the catcher to stretch his muscles just before he receives the pitch; that is, he frees himself from the natural kinks of squatting. I DO believe that - since it's the way I was taught to do it back in the late (LATE) 40s.

Evans must use a different approach at the five week than he does at his "Classics" in this regard.

"Proper us of the eyes", timing, was drilled into us at first base on out calls. See the foot, hear the catch, find and look at the ball.

However, on safe calls, we were taught: make the call, move your a$$ to the infield, no need to hang around checking F3's glove.

I'm confused. What you say Jim taught is what Tee and I have been saying: If the runner is safe, call it at once and head for Position B. (He never called it that - except once. When we moved from foul line to the left of the mound, he said: "Now, Carl, you'd call this B, right?" I said: "Sure. And so should you." Light laughter.)

What I was discussing was the stance behind the plate. Probably you weren't replying to me at all; it was just a coincidence that your post followed mine about catcher's movements.

You are correct, I wasn't replying to you. I neglected to hit the "quote" feature. I posted in reply to a Sal post of how the Academy teaches timing on safe and out calls.

Jim made the same type of comment about "B" at the Classic. "Let's all go to the infield where the base umpire will position himself with a runner on first. Some of you guys call this "B" position." Me: "Well, Jim, it does take less time."

Not correct. The pivot takes place, ideally, four to five steps on the grass. That's far too shallow for a B. The point is: You get to B before the batter-runner returns to first.

This can vary based on the play. One size doesn't fit all. Why was the runner safe? Where's the ball? Is there a possibility of the runner trying for second? Is there a possibility of a back door play? Is the ball still live? Is there a base award involved? and on and on.

No one is suggesting that anything be ignored. "An umpires worst enemy is surprise."