I just got a DVD of the World Series of 1943, 1944, and 1946, the Cardinals versus the Yankees, Browns, and Red Sox respectively.

The old films are enjoyable, but the umpires in particular are interesting to watch. The 1B umpires seemed to call most plays from foul territory between the coach's box and the bag and <i>very</i> close to the base. Sometimes the 1B ump stood maybe not quite as close to the bag but in fair territory in a direct line with the mound. On one stop-action, the umpire's arms are already fully extended in the "safe" sign with the runner's foot just barely having reached the bag and the ball a white blur not a foot from the glove. At all the bases, the calls seemed to be made simultaneous with the play. No wait at all.

I noticed that one PU was still dropping (to one knee) as the pitch was on the way. On one strikeout, the PU made a vehement call that turned him toward the 3B dugout. He must have thought the play was over, as he continued in that direction without looking back at the field to see the catcher drop the ball and then chase the runner up the 1B line for a few steps before tagging him.

And I think the first batter of the 1946 Series had a foot completely out of the box when he hit the ball. If anyone can tell me how to attach a picture, I'll post the vidcap. (I know people have done it.)

I also noticed that the Yankees occupied the 3B dugout for the 1943 games in Yankee Stadium.

I can't comment on the other part of your post, but if you mean the foot was on the bag but the ball wasn't in the glove, that's picture-perfect mechanics. The ONLY reason to delay a call at first is to be sure the first baseman maintains control.

Hence, clinicians teach: Call "safe" at once at home and first because the runner can't overslide/overrun the base. On outs at every base, wait until you've established control.

Yes, I've always called the play at 1B immediately, too. But at clinics I keep my mouth shut. MLB umps these days don't call them so fast, even at 1B.

It must vary by umpire - I've seen some quick "safes" called. And, of course, we're always taught that MLB guys are not always the best role models for mechanics. (That's litotes, folks.)

Two other things I noticed:

1. The batters' boxes were three-sided. There was no inner line.

2. After three outs, the infielders tossed their gloves onto the outfield grass. I knew they left their gloves on the field in those days, but it was still interesting to see.

An immediate call of safe is warranted, but I think the way greymule described it, the umpire may have signalled early. Since his arms were already fully extended with the foot just barely having reached the bag, he probably began his safe call before the runner touched. Especially because he added that the calls at all the bases (presumably both safe and out) were made without waiting.

I suspect that the evolution of the game has perhaps made most of us good enough to call MLB games. At least for the '40's! ;)

Mike

Yes, the calls at the bases were immediate or even faster, safe or out. And on called strikes, the right hand was up before the ball hit the mitt.

I wish I knew how to post jpegs.

I also noticed that the PU called time out immediately after the 4th ball of an intentional walk. Pitch hits the glove, immediate time out.

if you have the jpegs hosted on a website, like if you found them on the web, type this: {img src="http://www.whateversiteyoufoundthemat.com/image.jpg"}{/img} except you want to change { and } to < and >

if you have the pictures on your computer, and you want to put them up on the web, email me at [brian.curtin AT gmail.com] and i will host them for you

Not only did the old time umps call the safes and outs far too quickly, even at second and third bases, their mechanics always crack me up. Safe calls resembled football incomplete pass calls with the waving the arms back and forth, and the out calls with the arm shot up in the air with the extended thumb. Not wrong back then, just funny.:)

Re: Yep,
 

Timing according to the Academy is defined as "proper use of eyes". We use this all the time as plate umpires however it is just as important to use timing (proper use of eyes) and base umpires, as Carl said, to ensure complete control and voluntary release.

The problem with making a safe call immediately after the runner's foot touches the base is when F3 drops the ball on a wacker at first. As you come up with a BIG safe call to sell it and suddenly the ball is on the ground five feet from F3, he is going to turn to you and say "NO SH!T he's safe, I NEVER caught the ball... And by the way, thanks for sticking it up my a@@ !"

It's kind of like a BIG called third strike call on a cock shot where the batter is already heading for the dugout knowing he just took a perfect pitch. Sometimes you just don't have to emphasize the obvious.

As umpires are often creatures of habit, I would rather excercise good timing (proper use of eyes) on all plays, ie tags, forces, routine, wackers, safe, outs etc. because it just keep things simple. Just my opinion

Re: Re: Yep,
 

Sorry, but I don't buy this so-called "rationale."

Timing on a safe call at The Academy is nothing more than an exercise to see if the candidate umpire can follow directions.

You say the first baseman might say, "No sh!t!," when you call an immediate safe but the ball is on the ground.

What do you suppose everybody connected with the defense (fans included) will say when the runner hits the base first, you PAUSE to see if the fielder has control so you don't embarrass him - and then call "Safe!"

I wouldn't like to be in your Nikes.

Forget that "check it out" nonsense on safes at first. If he's safe, by golly, he's safe and NOTHING CAN CHANGE THAT, not even "Proper use of eyes, good Academy timing."

So let me get this straight....

On all force plays where the runner beats the throw, don't worry about timing and just call him safe immediately when his foot touches the base before the ball enters the glove.

On all force plays where the runner doesn't beat the throw, use good timing and proper use of eyes to ensure F3 cleanly catches the throw, then call him out.

On tag plays where the runner beats the throw, use good timing and proper use of eyes to ensure the the runner stays on the base after the tag is applied so you don't make a "double call"

On tag plays where the runner doesn't beat the throw, use good timing and proper use of eyes to ensure the fielder tags the runner and maintains control of the ball, then call him out.

With all due respect to both of you, as well as the MLB umpires you mentioned, in three out of the four scenarios listed (which covers just about all safe/out calls from a thrown ball), you need to use proper timing before rendering a decision. Why not just keep it simple (K.I.S.S. principal) and utilize proper timing ALL THE TIME! Am I missing something here???

Re: Well,
 

What's this supposed to mean???

Am I coming off as combative just for stating my opinion?

I certainly hope that we all can discuss, not argue, about certain topics here.

You're missing the main idea, which is similar to those pesky Baptists with their "once saved, always saved" doctrine. At first base, once safe, always safe, on THAT play, at least.

No one is trying to take away your precious "proper use of eyes, good Academytiming" IF it's an aid to getting the call right. Waiting on a safe is just plain bush, though.

It gains you nothing and creates potential for disaster.

Regarding close plays at first when the runner beats the throw AND F3 drops the ball...

Its really not a matter of waiting on safe calls, rather, it's coming up with a relaxed safe mechanic and no verbal versus an emphatic mechanic along with a loud verbal "SAFE". What looks more professional in this instance? Unless you are the MASTER of the OBVIOUS, I think a simple safe mechanic is sufficient.

Well, perhaps you were that guy at the plate once who yelled to the catcher after a slide/tag: "Show me the ball! Show me the ball!"

Here, gestures the catcher.

"Safe!" yells "that guy."

In amateur ball, you simply can't wait on safes at first.

What am I missing?

Runner beats the ball to 1B, you call him safe as soon as the bag is touched. What are we waiting for? Let's not make this too complicated.

Bob P.

Sal,
 

When I wrote:

"I certainly have no intent to start an argument with you Sal . . ."

It was not about YOU being argumentative it was, as always, about me being argumentative.

The fact remains:

I totally disagree with your positioning on the timing on the safe call at first base.

See it . . . call it! As soon as it happens.

SYAAUSNY,

While I certainly understand where you and Carl are coming from, I feel that verbalizing and emphatically calling someone safe when the ball is on the ground and everyone in the park knows the runner is safe draws unnecessary attention to yourself (ie Master of the Obvious).

Carl mentioned that waiting on safe calls is "bush", I feel that selling calls that don't need to be sold can appear to be just as "bush".

I think enough has been said and as you stated before, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Take care

[Edited by Sal Giaco on Feb 17th, 2006 at 11:44 AM]

For those who are interested, I have hosted the images that greymule was talking about earlier from his DVD. You can view the very simple page I put up at http://briancurtin.com/40s_umpiring.html. Its nothing flashy, just has a bunch of the pictures that were talked about so you can see for yourself. Click on the small images for the full size ones.

http://briancurtin.com/40s_umpiring.html

Feel free to link that page on other sites you visit, and/or post the images directly to other sites you visit.

[Edited by briancurtin on Feb 22nd, 2006 at 02:57 AM]

Thanks B . . .
 

From viewing the last picture the BU's timing is EXACTLY as I hope mine would be on the same exact play.

Note where the ball is in relation to the glove and the position of the runner.

There should be a comment inserted here: something about a picture being worth 10,000 words.

Spot On!

Many thanks, Brian.

I posted the photos of the 4th ball of two intentional walks because of how far outside the catchers stood. From the film itself, it seems that the catchers were planting themselves way outside before the release.

The catchers also often stood up as the pitcher was winding up and then moved down into the crouch as the pitcher's arm came around. Of all the differences between modern baseball and play in the 1940s, that one may be the most striking.

The photo entitled "Positioning" shows where the umps usually called plays at 1B. This was a grounder to 2B. Often they were practically on top of the bag in foul territory.

The photos of the batter with one foot apparently over the front line also reveal the lack of an inner line of the box. However, in other games, the inner line was clearly there. Maybe the groundskeepers found themselves out of lime before that game.

It is also possible that the picture of what the film claims is the first batter of the game is actually a picture of a later at bat of the same player. In those days, with their limited photographic resources, the filmmakers often did things like that. The inner line might have been rubbed away by that time (though the outer lines do look pretty good). It might also explain how the baselines got destroyed before any play had occurred. On the other hand, the films indicate that the baselines were not redrawn before every game. Evidently, as long as some kind of line was visible, they didn't bother putting new lime down, even for the World Series.

[Edited by greymule on Feb 22nd, 2006 at 09:31 AM]

Well,
 

In my neck of the woods I cannot remember the last time there was a inside line drawn on a batter's box.

In this area an inner line would be considered "little league" in nature.

We worked a playoff game out of our local area last year. When we got to the home plate conference the plate umpire rubbed both inner lines out with his foot.

We don't have inner lines in the area, by choice.

Strange: There are a few coaches in this area who teach that maneuver for the catcher. I hate it, of course, since he often sets <i>after</i> the release. I'm told that the catcher can track the ball better. I don't believe that although there are many major league umpires who follow the same procedure. It's part and parcel of the Jim Evans "heel/toe, heel/toe" stance, slipping into the lock/load as the pitch is on the way.

I'm also told that it allows the catcher to stretch his muscles just before he receives the pitch; that is, he frees himself from the natural kinks of squatting. I DO believe that - since it's the way I was taught to do it back in the late (LATE) 40s.

Evans must use a different approach at the five week than he does at his "Classics" in this regard.

"Proper us of the eyes", timing, was drilled into us at first base on out calls. See the foot, hear the catch, find and look at the ball.

However, on safe calls, we were taught: make the call, move your a$$ to the infield, no need to hang around checking F3's glove.

I'm confused. What you say Jim taught is what Tee and I have been saying: If the runner is safe, call it at once and head for Position B. (He never called it that - except once. When we moved from foul line to the left of the mound, he said: "Now, Carl, you'd call this B, right?" I said: "Sure. And so should you." Light laughter.)

What I was discussing was the stance behind the plate. Probably you weren't replying to me at all; it was just a coincidence that your post followed mine about catcher's movements.

You are correct, I wasn't replying to you. I neglected to hit the "quote" feature. I posted in reply to a Sal post of how the Academy teaches timing on safe and out calls.

Jim made the same type of comment about "B" at the Classic. "Let's all go to the infield where the base umpire will position himself with a runner on first. Some of you guys call this "B" position." Me: "Well, Jim, it does take less time."

Not correct. The pivot takes place, ideally, four to five steps on the grass. That's far too shallow for a B. The point is: You get to B before the batter-runner returns to first.

This can vary based on the play. One size doesn't fit all. Why was the runner safe? Where's the ball? Is there a possibility of the runner trying for second? Is there a possibility of a back door play? Is the ball still live? Is there a base award involved? and on and on.

No one is suggesting that anything be ignored. "An umpires worst enemy is surprise."