Line up card/ Batter interference

bake17 · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 06, 2001, 02:46pm

Hi folks, need some feedback on a couple things.
1st.(playing fed) I had a coach ask me if you could have two or more people listed on the line up card as playing the same position and not have a penalty. My partner told him it didn't matter(he was on the dish)and did nothing about it. The coach said so I can have 9 right fielders listed on the card and be legal? My partner said yes. I agreed with the coach while we were discussing it later. I told him I would try and find something after the game. All I could find was where you had to have a name, position, and number for the players. I couldn't find a penalty. Being to trivial????

2nd. I would like to have some input in calling batter interference. Catcher comes up throwing to third on a steal and batter stands still or moves slightly but remains in the box. Does the batter have to make some effort to get out of the way or does the catcher have to play around him?

Thanks alot!!!

Bake17

#2 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 06, 2001, 03:10pm

As far as the line-up I would have had it fixed at the plate meeting. I know of no penalty just a question. "Coach i think it's going to be crowded in RF tonight."

On the throw to third if the catcher catches the ball the batter can stay where he is. You can't expect him to move out of the way in the instant between catching and throwing. If it's a passed ball or muffed catch then the batter has to vacate any area needed to make the play. Remember that it's intentional interference on a thrown ball.

bob jenkins · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 06, 2001, 04:07pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bake17
Hi folks, need some feedback on a couple things.
1st.(playing fed) I had a coach ask me if you could have two or more people listed on the line up card as playing the same position and not have a penalty. My partner told him it didn't matter(he was on the dish)and did nothing about it. The coach said so I can have 9 right fielders listed on the card and be legal? My partner said yes. I agreed with the coach while we were discussing it later. I told him I would try and find something after the game. All I could find was where you had to have a name, position, and number for the players. I couldn't find a penalty. Being to trivial????

I'd want to know F1 and F2 at least (CR and restrictions on F1). Other than that, I don't care.

bluezebra · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 06, 2001, 07:00pm

Bob Jenkins is correct. The starting pitcher MUST be listed. All others really make no difference. We're only concerned with the batting order.

Bob

PeteBooth · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 07, 2001, 07:39am

Originally posted by bob jenkins
Originally posted by bake17

I'd want to know F1 and F2 at least (CR and restrictions on F1). Other than that, I don't care.

Bob you might not care but I bet the opposing coach would care.

FED rule 1-1-2

A player is designated in the scorebook by name, shirt number and fielding position. A diagram shows the arrangement of fielders.

A coach cannot give a line-up card that shows all players except F1 playing one position.

The line-up card has to list each starting player by number and their fielding position. I do not know of any opposing coach who would except a line-up card as described above except during a scrimmage game.

Part of coaching is knowing whose playing. Does F7/F8/F9 have a gun? Knowing your opponent is key to baseball.

Pete Booth

Rich Ives · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 07, 2001, 08:29am

Anyone know WHY FED requires the fielding position (other than pitcher) to be listed? After all, except for the specific locations on the field required for the pitcher and catcher, the other 7 really can all play left field if they desire.

joemoore · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 07, 2001, 08:42am

Quote:

Originally posted by PeteBooth
A player is designated in the scorebook by name, shirt number and fielding position. A diagram shows the arrangement of fielders.

You left out the word "customary", because the manager can position his players any way he likes. Lineups become official after the umpire approves them. There is no penalty or limitation for changing positions, except for the pitcher.

So, a manager may well list all players as position 9 as described, and by extension, after listing the pitcher, listing the other positions is nothing more than courtesy. If you are correct in that listing players in proper position will affect strategy, then why would a manager ever list the non-pitchers in the correct position?

PeteBooth · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 07, 2001, 10:08am

Originally posted by joemoore
Originally posted by PeteBooth

You left out the word "customary", because the manager can position his players any way he likes. Lineups become official after the umpire approves them. There is no penalty or limitation for changing positions, except for the pitcher.

So, a manager may well list all players as position 9 as described, and by extension, after listing the pitcher, listing the other positions is nothing more than courtesy. If you are correct in that listing players in proper position will affect strategy, then why would a manager ever list the non-pitchers in the correct position?

A manager may not list all players except F1 as position 9, especially in a Varsiry game. In Modified, ,Freshman and even JV, I would tend to agree with you because coaches do whatever they can to get the players in. Also, except for tournaments, standings are not kept at the Modified, Freshman or JV level.

However, in upper ball I do not know what manager would accept a line-up card that listed LJ as F1 and then the rest of the starting players as F9. A manager has the right to know what players are playing and where.

In upper ball, there are sometimes substitutions for defensive purposes only, and it can effect a steal situation, hit and run etc.

I guess the real answer is try it at the next varsity level game you do and see what the coaches response is.

Pete Booth

Rich Ives · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 07, 2001, 11:49am

PETE! What do you mean a manager has a right to know who is playing where? If I want to do a Williams shift and move the SS over on the 2B side of the base is he going to protest that he's out of position? Are you going to make me put him back at the "customary" SS position? Shall we mark the field as to who can go where (sorry coach, the RF isn't allowed to catch a fly ball in CF territory, the batter gets two bases)?

There are only 2 assigned spots on the field, pitcher's plate and catcher's box ,and those players only have to be there at specific times. The others can be anywhee in fair territory. You could legitimately just list them as "fielder."

PeteBooth · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 07, 2001, 12:13pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rich Ives
PETE! What do you mean a manager has a right to know who is playing where?

Ok Rich you are Joe Torre and your playing the Montreal Expos, Jeff Torborg hands you the line-up card listing F1/F2 and everybody else as "fielder".

You have Derek Jeter on 1st and Bernie Williams singles to right - Willie Randolph gives the wave sign to Derek to cintinue to third. All of a sudden this "rocket" comes into third (Pedro Guerro considered to have the best arm in the business) and nails Derek.

You can bet your bottom dollar Joe Torre and any other manager wants to know where Pedro Guerro is playing. The line-up card shows this.

I'm not talking about plays in which a shift is put on.

As stated, I do not have a problem with this approach in lower level ball, but when you get to upper ball - knowing who is playing where is important, otherwise except for the batting order why have a line-up card to begin with?

Pete Booth

bob jenkins · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 07, 2001, 01:08pm

Quote:

Originally posted by PeteBooth

You can bet your bottom dollar Joe Torre and any other manager wants to know where Pedro Guerro is playing. The line-up card shows this.

then all he has to do is look into right field.

Suppose it wasn't a "shift", but the manager just had the fielders play a different position at the start of an inning. Is that a violation? Does it matter if it's the first inning? So, to make sure I have the right number of players, I'll just put the positions in order on the line-up card -- putting F1 and F2 where they belong, then starting with F3 at the top and continuing to F9 at the bottom. If F9 isn't at the bottom, then I have a problem.

Very few of those players will be "in position" when the game starts -- but it's not a violation.

bluezebra · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Jun 07, 2001, 10:03pm

"You can bet your bottom dollar Joe Torre and any other manager wants to know where Pedro Guerro is playing. The line-up card shows this."

If Joe Torre, or any other manager, can't tell where Pedro Guererro, or any other player, is positioned, he's got a BIG problem. As far as the line-up card, ONLY the pitcher has to remain at his starting position for at least one play. The other players may be shifted, or substituted for, as soon as blue says "Play ball". Except for youth leagues with a must play rule.

Bob

joemoore · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Jun 08, 2001, 01:18pm

The point is that the manager could list the players in any fielding position. He could put Guerrero at 3B, but when he goes on the field he goes out to right field. When Torre comes out to you and says, why is Pedro in right, he is listed at third? What do you do? Overturn the out, throw the player out of the game, toss the manager? No. The rule book says that any defensive player may play at any place on fair territory. And if it is legal to list the right fielder as position 5, what difference would it make if he listed everyone as 9?

dani · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 11, 2001, 12:23pm

At the meeting at home plate the plate umpire should look on the lineup card and determine that there are no duplicate uniform or position numbers (rf instead of 9 is OK).

In over 20 years of umpiring I have never seen more than one position or uniform number duplicated on a lineup card. Just be assertive and get it the way you want it!