Brand new here so if this has been addressed recently, sorry.

At what level of baseball or in what circumstance is a runner allowed to bowl over a catcher with the ball? without the ball?

My son is a 13u catcher. Last year in a Triple Crown tournament he was bowled over twice in the same game by the same player while he had the ball and was waiting with the ball to make the tag. Not close to a bang-bang play either time. Fortunately he held on to the ball both times. Unfortunately the runner was congratulated both times by his coach/dad.

My understanding: The described situations are not acceptable within high school and all levels of youth ball, including upper levels of LL. I have seen a runner called out and ejected from the game after running over a catcher as you describe. Not sure about college level and of course we have seen this type of action in MLB.
BTW: Welcome to the board.

The Triple Crown website I was able to find did not specify all of the rules under which Triple Crown tournaments are played, but the ones that were listed were typical youth rules (ie limits on innings pitched, who can wear metal spikes, etc.). I know of no rules that would allow a non-professional runner to bowl over the catcher in any case. In college, "if the collision by the runner was flagrant, the runner shall be declared out and also ejected." However, if the catcher did not have the ball, the runner would be declared safe on the obstruction, but then ejected for flagrant contact.

In this case (13U) I would eject the player and if the coach/dad makes an a** out of himself after the call I will get him too.

In FED play this should be an ejection if the contact was malicious in nature. Sure sounds like it was both times the runner did this. Even though a runner is ejected for MC the umpire still has to determine if he was safe before the contact was initiated. You don't automatically call the runner out.

3-3-1 Penalty: "The umpire shall eject the offender from the game. Failure to comply shall result in the game being forfeited. In (n) {initate malicious contact}, the ejected player is declared out, unless he had already scored.

Tim.

Our adult leagues have gone to the NCAA collision rule and the NFHS force play slide rule. Baseball is not haw they put food on their tables.

D

What is the NFHS force play slide rule?

The force play slide rule is when a player is forced to vacate his base because the batter has become a runner (a force play). The slide part of the rule says that if the runner slides, he must slide directly into the base or away from the fielder. If he fails to slide legally he is out for interference, and so is the batter-runner.

The runner is never required to slide. The rule only imposes restrictions on how he can slide.


Mike

Take a look at Case Book 2.32.2 Situation C: On a force play at the plate if the runner from 3B slides through home plate and makes contact with the catcher on the other side it is FPSR and 2 outs. "A runner is expected to stop short of the back edge home plate." I have not seen this happen, yet.

remember in NFHS rules it is "slide or avoid." You don't have to slide if you can otherwise avoid contact (ie, running around, diving, jumping....)

alex

Diving?

Diving is allowed only if the fielder is lying flat on the ground.

Mike

you hit that one right on the nose, mike!

Back to the original question, full season AA Pro ball is, from what I understand, the lowest level of ball that players can take out a catcher waiting with the ball. I have yet to see any league or tourney below that where it is not an out and ejection.

You have to first judge whether or not the runner scored before the contact. If you have F2 straddling the plate, for example, and the runner touches the plate before he takes F2 out, then he's ruled safe and ejected. The only way you can call him out for malicious contact after he's scored is for a FPSR violation.

Tim.

True at some levels.

Where are you umpiring????
The runner is "ALWAYS" out if he dives over a player.

Not true, Mike (and Alex).

Diving is always illegal. You can jump over a player who is lying on the ground.

Who says the "dive" was over the player. You can dive if you're not diving over anyone. Diving to the side, for example.

How many times have you seen any player dive to the side to avoid a fielder?

Hmmm, Diving?
 

I have never seen a cannonball, unless you account for and look at the pre-impact postures of players in MLB collisions at home plate. Nor have I seen a reverse backflip during live action on a baseball diamond, but I will admit the StL WIZ of OZ could have done it.

I have witnessed four players come out from the dugout, run toward second base and dive headfirst in unison into second base at the end of a ballgame in celebration of an important victory. It really looked good and I ranked it a 10 on the headfirst diving scale.

I think Charlie Hustle was captured on film, on more than one occasion, diving head first into third base. Pete Rose fell during each dive, but some people will deny that ROSE ever flew through the AIR WE BREATH. They will admit that he appeared to fall less than normal because of Magnus effects on flatter trajectories. We can all agree that the baseball writers grounded his bid for the Hall of Fame. I still think the gambling world ranks Mr. Rose at the top of the diving scale, a perfect 10.

WTF???
 

Put down the bong and step back slowly, Dude.

Tim.

Now Diving UNDER the catcher!

"How many times have you seen any player dive to the side to avoid a fielder?"

------

Mmmm, everytime a runner on base "dives" back into the base during a pickoff attempt.

That would be one example.

Dives are sometimes legal.

That wasn't the original context.

FLOP to the SIDE or Your OUT
 

People using the physical principals of flight may DIVE to get down quickly. I am merely pointing out that DIVING is always in the obvious direction - downward, below or underneath. One cannot physically dive upward, over or curve to the side of another. However, one can physically jump or FLOP upward, over or to the side of another.

http://www.muhs.acsu.k12.vt.us/physi...osburyflop.htm

What a DRAG – normal humans are not good pitchers, normal humans are not good base-stealing runners, and normal humans usually FLOP over and towards the sidelines after being called out at the plate for bowling over the catcher.

Re: Hmmm, Diving?
 

Of course, the Magnus effects. How could I have forgotten?

JJ

Actually, it was a player diving toward home plate, but not over a fielder, that I was referring to. Tim's examples work too.

Re: Re: Hmmm, Diving?
 

If the runner does a flip while he's diving does Bernoulli's principle apply? It's obvious the runner is trying to RISE above being tagged out.

Tim.

Don't forget that Doppler Effect also....makes a mean scream going over F2....

Re: Hmmm, Diving?
 

We had a kid (American Legion ball, I believe) do a cartwheel after a game winning homerun (as he came into home plate)... the umpire was so stunned he didn't know what to do.

[Edited by DownTownTonyBrown on Feb 14th, 2006 at 04:11 PM]

Triple Crown uses the FED rule book.