I am umpiring 9-10 year olds, and am curious how liberal I should be with regard to the strike zone. I did a game last night; and was not giving the outside off the corner pitch to the pitcher. I am wondering if I should have; many of those pitches were close to, but not on the corner.
Also, what is a good way to not call the high pitch as a strike? I am seeing a lot of small (really small!) players and it is hard to judge sometimes. Thanks in advance!

At that age, give them 6 inches off the plate outside and 3 inches off of the plate inside. Call them up to their chin as well.

Eric Gregg of MLB baseball called 6 to 8 inch outside pitches strikes in a playoff game before he was fired (resigned, or whatever you call it). The same thing happened in the NCAA World Series one year. If it was good enough for the the big guys, its good enough for 9-10 year olds.

Shortly after Gregg called that game, I was doing a game and calling ridiclously outside pitches - strikes. One batter complained and I said "Don't you want to learn how to play in the National League."

At every level, the outside pitch is given to the pitcher, especially if the catcher makes it look good. It varies anywhere from one to six inches. Go for it.

Peter

AS big as I can get away with!!! At all levels! LOL

C, doing Youth ball is rough. I don't do it very often but here's what I would recommend:

Call the top of your zone below the Batter's elbow when he's ready to hit.

Try not to call the "LL knee" at the bottom of your zone, you know, where the catcher is lying down to catch it. Getting the knee pitch right will show you're ready to move up....

Get as much of the outside as you can. I try, repeat TRY, not to call it if the catcher flops over or slides really bad, but at a minimum, if any part of his mitt/glove is touching the plate, then it's gonna be a strike with me.

Hope this helps, hope you move up soon....LOL

Will

Don't widen your zone to where the batters can't reach the ball.

Bob

One thing I see with younger umpires is that they don't really have a good idea of where the corner is. SInce they are looking at the plate at an angle, a pitch that is over the plate looks on the ocrner; a pitch that is on the corner looks outside.

A couple of ways to deal with this:

(a) get in your stance and have someone toss a ball near the corner. You call it; then your partner tells you where it "really" was.

(b) when you brush the plate, put you shoe just off the side of the plate. Call a strike if the ball is over your shoe.

(c) watch the batter take a practice swing. Note where the end of the bat appears to be. Call a strike if the ball passes within that zone. (Since the batter usually takes the practice swing as if the ball were over the heart of the plate, and will (or should) lean to get an outside pitch, he'll be able to hit the pitch that was at the end of the bat during the practice swing.)

Thanks for all your helpful input. I am doing this as a volunteer thing; my son plays in the league, and they typically recruit those of us foolish enough to agree to umpire games. Just kidding; I actually enjoy it. Thanks again!

I like the new high strike zone for varsity HS. I was not calling them at first but then coaches would say to me: " Hey, Greg what about the new high strike zone." They seem to like the higher strike zone right below the arm pits at about the sternum. I see kids hit high pitches out of the park all the time. We shouldn't be scared to call the high pitch. It is good for baseball at all levels.

Greg

what "new high strike zone" for varsity HS? The strike zone was last changed in 1998.

<i> Originally posted by C rabby </i>
<b> I am umpiring 9-10 year olds, and am curious how liberal I should be with regard to the strike zone. I did a game last night; and was not giving the outside off the corner pitch to the pitcher. I am wondering if I should have; many of those pitches were close to, but not on the corner.
Also, what is a good way to not call the high pitch as a strike? I am seeing a lot of small (really small!) players and it is hard to judge sometimes. Thanks in advance! </b>

Before I comment on your thread, I have a recommendation for you. Right now you are umpiring the "rugrats" but if you would like to advance, etc., attend a clinic and there you will get plenty of practice on mechanics. There are hours spent just on calling outs / safes and many more concerning the strike zone.

Also, as fast as rules and rule interpretations are changing, so are the way mechanics are being taught. Before, you get any <i> bias </i> from someone, attend a clinic and learn for yourself as to what works best for you.

There are basically 3 stances behind the plate - The Box, scizzors and getting down on 1 knee. All are acceptable and the clinicians will go over all of these with you, so you can choose the one you feel most comfortable with and also gives you a good look at the corners.


Umpiring 9/10's is not easy, I suggest you form a box around home plate as to where your strike zone is. Whenever the ball hits that box area - it's a strike. By doing this, it takes away the guesswork.

As Peter recommends, have a wide strike zone, if your uncomfortable with 6 inches off the plate, then move towards 4 which is not unreasonable.

The bottom line in these youth levels is to get the kids to swing the bats, otherwise you will still be playing. BTW, on average how long have your games been running?

No-one likes walk-a-thons, also the fielders especially young ones lose interest real fast when they do not see <b> any action </b> come ther way.

Also, when players know that you do not have a <b> postage </b> for a zone they are more apt to swing.

Good Luck!

Pete Booth

Thanks, Pete, for some helpful pointers. Our games (six innings) generally run about two hours. I will apply some of your advise and let you know how I do. Thanks again!

The littler the kids, the bigger the zone. They don't want to hit in the first place. Most of them are scared. So make them swing by making it wide for them.

As the age goes up, the more aggressive (hopefully) and then bring it in.

I believe that you can be very generous with the width of the zone, but not the heighth.

Max

You don't need an analysis 9 and 10?
 

Puuleeze, tell me that you were
JOKING
when you said you didn't give the pitchers strikes OFF the plate?

At that level of kid pitch, you don't need all the analysis. The kids CAN hit it, Grandma WANTS to see them hit it, the fields WANT the ball hit, the batter WANTS to run around the bases... so get them swinging... EARLY.

The best litmus test is... "Is this pitch hittable?" (Speed dependant). It sounds like these players start up looking at pitches. (too bad).. so start EARLY call strikes EARLY....trust me, they will start to swing.

I'm not talking about unhittable pitches or in the eyes.. BUT.. (9 and 10 fercryinoutloud)... armpits to low knees to black on inside... a couple ball widths outside ..is HITTABLE, so why not let them hit?

what "new high strike zone" for varsity HS? The strike zone was last changed in 1998. [/B][/QUOTE]

Well, since the major leagues began to enforce the high strike zone, coaches in Colorado seem to accept a strike when it is in the high part of the strike zone. The strike zone is not new in HS but it was an unspoken rule that you never call the high strike. But since the major leagues are calling it, HS coaches are accepting the high strike

Greg

[Edited by Gre144 on Jun 2nd, 2001 at 09:19 AM]

I respectfully disagree. I see guys hit it out of the park when the ball is a at the top part of his shoulders. I think a strike should be called at the lower part of the arm pits since this is a very hitable pitch. Besides the strike zone is halfway between the wasteline and the shoulders. I personally think that many veteran umpires should open up the strike zone.

Greg

"Well, since the major leagues went to the new high strike zone"

This NEW strike zone has been around before I was born (1932). MLB is just making their umps enforce it.

bob

I call anything below the chest and above the bottom of the knee a strike for all age levels. I call the black and an inch on the inside, I call the black and 2 ball widths on the outside for all age levels.

If the game dictates that the strike zone is unreasonable, I open it up for both teams. Some new umps have the impression that their job is to keep games close and they pinch good pitchers and help weak pitchers. The job is to keep the game fair.

Younger players are difficult because the ball often comes in with arc. It starts at the eyes and then it hits the dirt. Just remember that in order for the ball to go from too high to in the dirt it had to go through the strike zone.

The most important thing I learned as an ump calling strikes is to watch the ball all the way in to the catchers mitt, replay the pitch in my head for a second and then call the pitch. On all calls, don't rush!

Good Luck.

"Puuleeze, tell me that you were
JOKING
when you said you didn't give the pitchers strikes OFF the plate?"



No sir, I was dead serious. I am also interested in learning the right way to call balls and strikes; that is why I posted the original post. Do you have anything to contribute?

Take Notice
 

that almost all of us advocate calling a pitch OFF of the plate a STRIKE.

C Rabby, I don't know how far you aspire to go. I also know that I wouldn't want you calling balls and strikes in any game I'm coaching if you're not calling strikes off of the plate.

The outside pitch is hard to get right. Almost as hard as getting the knee pitch correct. Just about all new umpires that haven't had some serious instruction seem unable to call these pitches consistently.

Some words from the guys that have taught me to call balls and strikes:

"There are 8 defensive players, 1 batter and at least 2 umpires wanting some kid to throw a strike. Don't MAKE the kid throw a strike, LET him throw a strike."

That theory kinda guides my zone from game to game. BTW, he wasn't referring to Youth ball either. This was at our state FED umpire camp.

Call strikes, call a lot of em, then get 20 more strikes.

Will

OK.. we will accept that. You have to take the secret oath of silence, because this is OUR secret (umpires).

A pitch can be FAT, hittable, belt to top of knees, one full ball width off the plate 3". CALL THIS A STRIKE everytime! NObody on the planet knows the exact location of this pitch except YOU and the catcher. No one will grumble, no one will complain. You will probably only call it once or twice.. the rest of the time it will be HIT or fouled off. But batters swinging will be established.

Other than self torture.. there is no reason to force a pitcher to hit "white" in this area.

"OK.. we will accept that. You have to take the secret oath of silence, because this is OUR secret (umpires)."


Thanks for all the info. As I said, I am a rank amateur, and respect what you all have to say. My sincere thanks again.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bluezebra
[B]Don't widen your zone to where the batters can't reach the ball.

Bluezebra has the right ideal, especially for 9-10.
Most of these little guys cannot reach out as far as
I have read most of you guys are making your strike
zone. Bet you have lots of no no's. Bring ball in
down, let'em hit.:D

Well, if I were you, I'd give them several inches of slack. As for the high balls, if they are above the collar bone area of the batter, it's gotta be a ball.

And if the pitch is 10 inches outside and they step across the plate so they can reach it, you didn't see anything.

Everyone seems to endorse calling off the outside edge of the plate. I would recommend calling the inside part of the plate, especially if the batter is hanging over the plate.

Some batters (especially the little guys) will come to plate with the sole intent draw a walk. They crowd the plate hoping the ump will call that tight inside pitch (especially when they jump back) a ball and the pitch outside will be balled as well.

Call those pitches on the inside a strike and two positive results will generally occur. One, the batter will back off the plate as he can't handle getting the bat around on the next inside strike you call. Two, the batters on both teams will come up swinging, not expecting to draw a walk.

strike zone for 9-10 yr olds
 

remember that at this age they are just learning - I use a
liberal strike zone - 3-4 inches off the outside corner, not more that 1-2 off the inside, just on the shoulders, and on the knees. The pitchers nned to know how to hit the zone. nobody is learning anythong if we walk 15 batters.

If the game is out of hand, then I open it up some more for teh team that is ahead, and I so inform the coaches.

I think you'd be surprised as to how far those little guys can reach.

Remember, hitting is not done from an upright position. If the ball is off the outside corner, Little Johnny should have no trouble reaching out and striking it.

Go ahead - take a kid, hand him a bat, tell him to get in the box, and see just how far he can reach. You'll be amazed. In some cases, they can reach well into the opposite batter's box.

Jim
Sounds like some advice that I will take
and apply. Let you know how it works. I
just dont want to take the bat out of the
young pups paws. They are off the leash
letem play. Thanks :D

your strike zone
 

"Your strike zone?" "My strike zone?" the last time I looked at the rule book, the strike zone was defined. Letting each umpire define the strike zone differently is what got us to the point where MLB had to order the umpires to follow the rules, instead of calling everything above the belt a ball. What's the difference between saying "my strike zone is 3" outside" and "my fair zone is 3" outside of third base" or "if the throw doesn't beat the runner by at least a full step, I'm calling him safe"? No difference at all, except that everyone in the park is going to see you're wrong, whereas they won't see that the outside strike you just called is a ball.

When you're working youth leagues you are teaching everyone, not just the hitter. Specifically, you're also teaching the pitcher that he doesn't have to get the ball over the plate. Do you really think that's a good idea? Not me. An umpire who calls strikes out of the true (rulebook-defined) strike zone is interfering with the balance of the game by helping pitchers who can't find the zone. You're not letting them play their game, you're actively affecting the outcome by not following the rules.

Re: your strike zone
 

<i> Originally posted by vtjack [/i]

<b> When you're working youth leagues you are teaching everyone, not just the hitter. Specifically, you're also teaching the pitcher that he doesn't have to get the ball over the plate. Do you really think that's a good idea? Not me. An umpire who calls strikes out of the true (rulebook-defined) strike zone is interfering with the balance of the game by helping pitchers who can't find the zone. You're not letting them play their game, you're actively affecting the outcome by not following the rules. </b>

In some youth leagues one is lucky enough if a kid can reach the plate let alone get it in the strike zone.

Rules were written for players that have certain abilities.
When the rule-makers defined the strike zone I'm certain that they didn't have 9/10 yr. old "rugrats" in mind.

The OBR rules as written are for the professional athlete. Yes kids have to learn the rules, but it is gradual. If your going to have a league that allows kids 9/10 yrs. old to pitch, then you need a broader definition of the strike zone otherwise you will still be playing.

Most youth leagues that I know of do in fact have a broader defintion of the zone at that age. Also, no-one likes a walk-a-thon.

Now if you umpire an advanced league (Probably travel) where individuals have to try out and make the team and the talent level is strong, then one doesn't have to <b> taint </b> the zone as much.

Also, do not have a <b> postage </b> for a zone

Pete Booth

9/10 Yr. Olds
 

Dont know exactly what I learned Sat. nite,
but a friend talked me into helping do a
9/10yr Little League game. The score after
six (6) innings was 31-26. Walk-a-thorn.
I now remember why I stopped doing 9-10yr.
olds. 4hrs 12mins. They did swing at the few
that crossed the plate. The curfew liked to
have ended the game. :D

ya it dependz on what age group im donin if itz 9/10 minor i call top letter 2 middle shinz and 6 inchez outside and 4 inchez inside 11/12 minor letterz 2 kneez 4 inchez outside and 3 inchez inside any high caliber ball lik tha major level i do bottom letterz 2 middle kneez 2 inchez outside nothing inside but i hav a libral black inside zone junior house i give letterz 2 kneez 3 inchez off each corner and travel junior i give nothing off tha cornerz and im strict letterz and kneez that wont help much but if ne 1 wantz 2 take my advice on tha strike zone thx (haha ur insane)

<b>OH NO!</b>

It's not just bad ump - it's the new and improved version of bad ump. It's, it's - <b>bad ump 2001</b>!

Run for the hills!

*grin*

ZZZZZZZzzzzzzz's
 

How you finger all hat outs, In bewix ZZZZZZZZ's :cool:

I have been working on expanding my zone for the last four years. In my fourth high school game this year (a JV game), I overheard the coach in the dugout in the second inning, "OK, guys, this ump's got a big zone, so go out there swinging." I immediately smiled and was "in a zone" for the rest of the game. I had three illegal pitch calls and an ejection for malicious contact, but it was one of my best games I've ever called. On the way out, the other coach (the one whose player was ejected) commented to me, "Thanks, you call a good game, blue."

Finding a consistent, big zone that is accepted at your level and close enough to the rulebook is one of the greatest challenges in umpiring. When you find one that's "pretty good", you'll be happier than a clam.

P-Sz

Finding a consistent, big zone that is accepted at your level and close enough to the rulebook is one of the greatest challenges in umpiring. When you find one that's "pretty good", you'll be happier than a clam.

P-Sz [/B][/QUOTE]

I agree with your statement 100%.

I have a pretty wide strike zone. The coach, in this legion A game, began to complain about it. I got a little upset and decided to expand the zone even further. At the end of the game he said, "great job Blue." The moral of the story is: be consistent, make sure the guys are swinging and keep the game moving along.

Greg

[Edited by Gre144 on Jul 12th, 2001 at 04:12 PM]

Patrick, just remember
 

If you believe a coach when he's being positive then you also have to believe him when he's being negative. You can't be selective when you start believing coaches.

Personally, I pay no attention to a coach's analysis of my performance, either way. My partners and the association's evaluators are better equipped to give me an unbiased opinon.

GB


Patrick wrote:
<i>"On the way out, the other coach (the one whose player was ejected) commented to me, "Thanks, you call a good game, blue."</i>


[Edited by GarthB on Jul 13th, 2001 at 01:03 PM]

9 -10 Strike Zone
 

Some suggestions:

1. Keep your head still and watch the ball leave the pitcher's hand all the way until it reaches the catcher's glove.

2. Think "strike." It is a strike until you conclude that it is not a strike.


3. Coaches and parents only see the height of the ball. They can't tell if a ball was 6 inches or 1/2 inch inside or outside. They do see the shoelace and head high calls.

4. Good coaches can teach their players how to adjust to your strike zone, if they can figure it out.

6. Try the old American League "Box" stance, directly over the catcher. As you gain experience, you likely will move to the "slot," where most pros set up. But, the box will give you the best view of the corners.

Re: Patrick, just remember
 

Good comment, Garth, this is certainly true. It is important to leave the true evaluations to our peers. To hear a compliment from a coach is little more than <b>nice</b>, yet much appreciated.

P-Sz