Before Rut railroaded the topic, another member commented about my dealing with abusive coaches at the plate conference. He asked what happened and how I handled the situations.

In the first sitch, we were working a college double header. I was working third for the first game and figured to have a coaster for the second. During the first game, the pitcher successfully picked off a runner who had strayed to far from third. If was a nutbuster for the coach who was six feet away. The throw was high but in time and I punched his player out. The guy lost it and we're taught to just ignore it. My plate partner came out and got between us and I pretended that I was watching The Horse Whisperer for the fifth time. (Blah, blah, blah...) The game ends and his team loses by a run. Off to the locker room and my first base partner starts complaining about some dirt that got in his eye and scratched the cornea. I offer to grab the dish and he gratefully accepts. We come out for the pre game and the coach thinks I've got it in for him. Before I can even tell him about the situation he says that I better toss him now because he will be all over me during the game. I look at him and oblige. Believe it or not, he just stood there with the dumbest look you've ever seen. "What? You can't throw me for that." The assistant came out and dragged him away. I explained the situation to him and he just shrugged his shoulders. That game went smoothly and I was back there a few weeks later. He walked out for the pre game and said to the other coach, "Watch what you say. This guy takes us way too seriously." The other coach laughed because he had heard what happened and said, "Why don't you just throw him out now, he's going to be all over you during the game." I smiled and said that I'm sure we'll all be on our best behavior. No hitches and his team again lost. I've seen him a dozen times over the last few years.

The only other time I had a coach say something to me at the pre game was when he barked about a call that was made against him a few weeks before. I had never seen him before, so I just listened. Since I was working first base for the first game, I usually just smile and nod. This guy was adamant that I kicked a foul ball call on him against Creighton. I said it wasn't me and he went crazy, telling me that in his thirty plus years of baseball, he knows remembers every umpire who ever screwed the pooch. My partners looked at me and I asked him when the game was. He told us and it just so happened that I was working with those two guys at another school that weekend. We all looked at each other and started to laugh. He grew angrier and wanted to know what the problem was. My partner was about to explain when I asked him to take the line ups first. Once they were in his hands, he explained that we were working at one of his conference rivals that weekend and that we were several hundred miles away. He looked at me and said, "You look just like that guy though." I smiled and said, "I'm sure a lot of outs look safe to you too." He turned red and we never heard a peep from him for either game.

Oh well, this is just the kind of thing that happens when you think you've seen and heard them all. As a correllary, I've also been told that I'm neither fair nor good plenty of times. They used stronger language but the point was the same.

Has the Time Square ball started to drop yet?

I posted this thing thirty seconds ago and it says that it's had 6 views. What's going on with the counter?

Nah, it sounds like we're generating more views than really true.

you just keep reading visiting the page....don't worry, at least you wrote a good story. I always write bad ones and then look at them. Now that's just stupid.

Your subject title "Ba Bye" lead everyone to believe you were leaving and they couldn't wait to read your final words. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!

i was actually kind of confused when i opened the thread and it wasnt about leaving

It was about leaving.

...but you arent gone, so it really isnt about leaving. im not saying i want you gone, or that you need to leave because you wrote that, but the fact that you are still here made it confusing.

confusing isnt the right word, it was just odd

It's about the COACH leaving, at the pregame... Read the post again and you will get it.

Thank you. I know we've had thread titles that had nothing to do with the actual post. This one was a tongue in cheek play on the sit-com dismissal - ba' bye!

Nice to see you here, NF. Your thoughts often make for 'interesting' reading.

you got me. i didnt even read the post until now...

i would have gotten a few "RTFA" posts if this was another site

Don't worry about it. Some people actually read the post and still don't get it.

This started in Carl's "Championship Game" thread that was deleted. A member asked me to clarify what happened when a couple of coaches dogged me pre game. I know that others have had similar experiences. Hell, I know one guy that tossed a coach as he was entering the gate. He was getting dressed in the parking lot when the bus rolled in with the visiting team. The coach followed in his own car and stopped to see who the umpires were. He saw the one umpire and said something like, "Oh ****, I've got you again. What did I do to deserve this?" Needless to say, he didn't have to endure that umpire or the game.

You mean he got him in the parking lot? Whoa!



[Edited by bob jenkins on Dec 28th, 2005 at 07:57 AM]

WOW!

You mean the coach wasn't just joking around, with a smile on his face? Coaches are all the time saying stuff like "oh no, not you again" with a big old grin on their faces. It is hard to believe a coach would say this with malice to the umpires before a game.

And since when did umpires' jurisdiction start in the parking lot? Should have just laughed and let it go, and made him endure the whole game, umpires and all.

So if a coach is smiling, he couldn't possibly
be serious,right? Backstabbers often smile at
your face.Unless I know that I have a mutually
respective relationship with a coach, I'm not
going to appreciate any comments of that sort.

Umpduck,

I do have mutual respective relationships with many coaches, and the joking around goes both ways. I know which coaches I have trouble with, and which ones I don't. If a coach is actually stupid enough to say something like that in a serious manner, and if it is a coach that I know hates me, I would wait until I'm on the field, bait him, then run him. How can one actually justify running a coach for something said in the parking lot before the game? I could see myself trying to explain my way out of that one.

Tone is not something you can see with a written word. I was not there, but I presume that it wasn't a cheerful delivery. I know the umpire involved and he reacted with more grace than many under volatile circumstances. If he felt the need to eject, I don't question it.

Toss'em early
 

I had a sit several years ago that I posted on this site once before. I was doing a tourney, had the plate for the last game on the first night. Long story short, home team head coach didn't like the call I'd made on a balk, came out and discussed it, went back without much fuss. Next morning, I was BU, during the plate conference, the same coach starts asking my partner (different from the night before)about the balk call I had with him the night before. He didn't think that the ruling was right, and that I was a real A$$HOLE about it. My partner knew about what happened because I had discussed it with him in our pregame. We stood there in shock, I really don't think that he realized that I was the person he was referring to, and since it wasn't directed at me I let it go.

Over the years, the more I think about it the more I know I should have dumped him right there.

Re: Toss'em early
 

If you and the coach "discussed" the balk the night before, then he knew who you were at home plate the next day. Coaches avoid eye contact sometimes and talk "about" you, when they are really talking "to" you. To quote a famous poster, "Ba-bye"!

JJ

Would that be famous or notorious? ;)

Happy 2006 JJ!

That would be both WWTB and in case you didn't see it before it got deleted HAPPY NEW YEAR!

I'd never dump a coach for something said
off the field prior to the game, and did not
mean to imply that I would. I would, however,
toss his arse at the first comment about balls
and strikes, or a judgement call. That way, you don't
have to "explain" your way out of anything. As you
said, "bait him, then run him".

"How can one actually justify running a coach for something said in the parking lot before the game? I could see myself trying to explain my way out of that one. "


The coach walks out to your car and tells you that he is going to file a letter of complaint with your assignor. He calls you the biggest pile of beetle sh-t he's ever seen. He looks at your partner and tells him that you don't belong working t-ball games after the last few games he's seen. He mentions a play you know you kicked and one that he is dead wrong about. It doesn't matter because he is spitting mad and cursing up a storm. He looks at you and says that he wishes you'd pull a "McSherry" right there in front of his team. He walks back to the field and into his dugout. At the plate meeting, he is accompanied by his assistant and team captain. The team captain hands you the line up card and the assistant explains the ground rules. The head coach just stares at you. He never says a word and the other coaches don't have any sense of any animosity. The meeting ends and he walks away with out shaking hands. He goes into the dugout and doesn't say a word. He just stares at you, smiling about that letter he's composing in his head.

Do you still feel you should be better served ignoring it? Sure you could bait him, but what if he doesn't bite? You call him over to discuss a line up card question and he sends the assistant. You ask for more baseballs and he sends the kid on the bench. He keeps both feet in the coachs' box and never says a peep to or at you. If you pull the trigger at anytime after it starts it makes you look like a newbie with a hardon for the guy. Explaining your actions at the plate meeting is a lot easier than baiting him and having two coaches think you're clueless.

Like I said before, I wasn't there and don't know the history, but if he felt it necessary to dump the chump, he was correct. My trigger is pretty well guarded, but if my buttons get pushed...

That's an easy one! Quick phone call to the assigner explaining the situation and fact that the coach will be ejetected the moment the umpires enter the field (In some areas or levels we just go to the site admin before the game & handle it there).

The attack was personal - no way it get's by.

That being said I have baited coaches / managers to KEEP them in the game. Get 'm out by 2B, let them vent, smile & ask if he feels better now. (I come from the OLD school. Perhaps not as old as T but old in any case).

PWL gets a +1 in my book for the writing of that song

i like how we are talking about wounds inflicted on an internet message board

socalblue1 -

I'm from the old school too, but I don't hand the problem to my assignor and never suggest that to any of my colleagues. My job is to handle the issue and report how professionally I did. In retrospect you can probably appreciate why some vets wouldn't handle it the way you suggested. Newbies may be better served by nvolving a more knowledgeable party.

At many schools, the site manager is the head coach. Leaving the parking lot/locker room to find a sprots information assistant or AD assistant is a challenge few invite. The baseball stadiums are usually fairly far removed from the campus around here.

You and I agree that we do not allow personal attacks. I was very careful with my wording - as careful as the coach who baited the umpire away from the field. My suggestion that it is far easier to handle it right away has nothing to do with being a quick trigger. Either way, we have some explaining to do and will look bad to the casual observer. I suggest that it is not tolerable to ignore and that our job is tough enough without the distraction. I can count the coach ejections I've had in the last few years on one hand. I don't find them very necessary because I'm blessed with really great skippers. They know we each have a job to do and the respect is mutual.

However, I tend to run into one mentally challenged pro washout who wants to vent every year or so. I've actually had a coach knock on our locker room to tell me that he hated my strike zone and doesn't like me. That guy is now heading up a really excellent D1 program and I see him once or twice a year. I remind him of the conversation and he smiles that it was his way of letting me know he was in charge. He figured that since I didn't react I was scared. Unless he reads this forum, he'll never know that I closed the door and told my partners that he wanted to know if I would date him and asked me to call him after the series. (Not that there's anything wrong with it!) Those guys kept a careful distance and it worked out for me too. They were less likely to get in his face and it made me look like I never told them about what he said. I get to see him in early April when he brings his squad up north - one of my old partners will be there too. He's still freaked out about it. Killing them with kindness is far worse than pulling the trigger sometimes! :)

First, these things were not said in the example given. All the coach said was something like "not you again." If a coach went as far as to threaten me with complaint forms or to curse me, then I'm not putting up with that bullsurf at all. The original comment was what I was refering to, but you have now flipped the script and added variables of which I was not addressing with my quoted comment. Since you were not astute enough to figure this out to begin with, I will restate it in terms that will draw you a diagram:

"How can one actually justify running a coach for saying "Oh, not you again" the parking lot before the game? I could see myself trying to explain my way out of that one."

Where I come from, we don't have coaches stupid enough to approach umpires in the parking lot prior to games to start with. But if they did, and made a remark like that, it would not cause me to blow a fuse. If I thought the coach was serious, he wouldn't last long once I got on the field anyway.

Where I live, I don't see umpires with less experience than me act like they do. I provided a specific play and gave sound advice. Everyone else understood it, but you wait a day or so and then start tossing insults. Do we need to retread the "I'm better than the pros" thread? It was chock full of misplaced SDS wisdom. I hope 2006 is kinder to you.

I enhanced the situation because you write that you wouldn't toss a guy for something he said in the parking lot. If you weren't astute enough to recognize that it was a different situation then I know you have bigger issues. Like I said, I wasn't there and I don't question others' ejections. If you second guess those made by your friends and colleagues then my first sentence was more than obvious. The umpires around here know better.

Happy New Year.

WWTB,

I didn't "wait a day or so and start tossing insults." I had not checked the board for several days, and added my post shortly after reading your comments.

You quoted me in your post. That automatically gives me every right to respond to anything you have to say after that.

All I did was clarify what I meant by "saying something in the parking lot." I also never said that this umpire shouldn't have done what he did. I said that I wouldn't have done the same thing myself.

You are the one who felt the need to add to the original situation you posted. I was only responding to one particular set of circumstances which made up the original situation.

Look, I don't care how much college ball you've worked. That alone doesn't make you a better umpire than anyone else. I am very good at what I do, and will not take a back seat to you, or your experience. I have many years of experience, enough to when I say something, it is a qualified comment.

It amazes me that you have the arrogance to claim to be a better umpire than me. You haven't seen me, and I haven't seen you, so since you can't speak from first hand knowledge, it would behoove you to remain silent.

I haven't watched either of you ump. But, I know that unless you have umped minor league or D1 baseball WWTB is better than you. I read how the two of you answer posts and it looks like WWTB knows his stuff. What is your experience?

Is someone who umpired Bronco League better than someone who worked Mustang League. What difference does that make whether he worked D1 ball or not? I certainly don't lack the ability to do that. I've seen plenty of D1 umpires who shouldn't be working higher than HS varsity! It cracks me up how everybody seems to equate umpiring with rocket science. If you're good, you're good. I never said I was better than he was. HE ALWAYS SAYS HOW GREAT HE IS!

As for my experience, I have only been at it for 20 years, not the 30 plus that WWTB allegedly has. I only have a little more than 3,000 games under my belt. I'm sure WWTB has me beat there too! I only worked 6-7 days a week for 40 to 45 weeks a year for the first 16 years I umpired.
Ever since the middle of my second year, I have worked mainly HS varsity when it comes to HS ball. I have extensive experience in Pony, Colt, Palomino, American Legion, USABF, NABA, ADABA, MABL, MSBL, and Mexican-American League baseball. I worked 3 Mexican American All-Star games, and 2 of their Championship games. I worked the 2000 Area Code games at Qualcomm Stadium and Tony Gwynn Stadium, in front of large crowds. I have worked 3 semi-final Sectional playoff games, but never got a final, because here you have to be on coaches' request lists, and the lists I made never made a final. I have never had the opportunity to work college ball, but not for lack of ability. I have previously addressed the reason for this.

Now, all that waste of bandwidth being said, I think I am at least qualified to give my opinion without being ridiculed each and every time. I expect that kind of treatment from coaches, but not other umpires.

Everyone please note that I was asked about my experience.

[Edited by SanDiegoSteve on Jan 4th, 2006 at 12:21 AM]

Please show me where I said how great I am. Post the copy or link - it's a simple request.

You have never worked college or Minor League baseball, yet you are every bit as qualified as I am? You never got the chance to work college ball because your scary talent was recognized but ignored? If you were that good, those assignors and coaches would be calling you. A lot of guys get off season or practice game schedules from college coaches who see their work on the High School field. That is why I've stressed the importance of being aware of scouts and assistants. Your career can be made in a parking lot. I've also said that getting those games is only half the battle. You have to be asked back before you know you're accepted into that fraternity.

Ego has a big place on the baseball field. Players, coaches and umpires all believe that they are the best. If you don't understand that then I know why you haven't been asked to join the college umpire organization near you. Keep calling them Big Dogs and closed minded - that'll open that door!

I'm going to bed now. Joe Pa just beat Bobby B. and I made a little money. Three overtimes and some terrific defense made this one for the ages. I bet you kind of feel like that Florida State kicker right about now. Don't worry, time heals all wounds.

I work a lot of games in the ABC, 123, and EIEIO divisions.

Does this make me a good umpire?

Now that's funny! I don't care who you are.

Nice observation Bob.

Hmmmmm....
 

I wonder which Bob deleted Bob Lyles post.


Tim.

Why do his posts always seem to get deleted? Wait...I think the veterans of this board know.

It was not I.

Bob

Bob Lyle's nemesis - Bob Abooey?

And so the mysterious deletions begin. Must've been the language Bob used. Seems such a strange connection, Mr. Jenkins and WWTB hmmmmmmmm.......

More than one moderator can delete posts and complete threads. If Bob Jenkins was the culprit then I suspect that Bob Lyle did what he does best to earn it.

[Edited by bob jenkins on Jan 5th, 2006 at 04:39 PM]

Easy there Chuckles, no one "accused" you of being Bob Jenkins. Just simply pointed out the "strange connection" you seem to share. After all, Bob was the one who deleted most of my post to you. He even deleted my New Year's wish to you, which was to have a happy one. No, I don't think your Bob, but then again just who are you? I know, I know, it's been "revealed". Just where is that thread anyway?

As for being "laughed at" on the "other board", who the frack cares. I don't give credence to idiots. I was wondering though, does flagrant(malicious)contact supercede obstruction under NCAA rules?

Have a good day WWTB. Try not to be so touchy next time.

I did and he did (imo, which is the only one that matters in this instance).