Crossover from football/basketball considering baseball. I liked the idea of being outdoors and I love baseball.

With that, I don't want to drop a small fortune into gear I'm not going to like. Understanding there are no guarantees, I'm wondering the following:

1. What's the minimum amount of equipment I need to get started (first 3-4 weeks)?

2. Are the combo pants really big enough to fit the shin guards for the plate? Do they look like bell bottoms on the bases?

3. From what I understand, the chest protector and mask are pretty much your key pieces of equipment. What do I need to look for here?

4. I don't like the look of pure plate hats. Does the combo hat come off when you pull off the mask or do you have to work on that to keep it from coming off?

5. Indicator on the bases to start out or no?

6. I've worn under-armour stuff all season in football and basketball and expect to do the same baseball. Is UA stuff sufficient for the base layer under the equipment?

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but this will get me started. Thanks!

the minumum amount of equipment is everything. shin guards, chest protector, mask, cup, plate shoes. i guess you could really skip plate shoes if you are new and working lower levels, but it is really a big risk that could lead to lots of pain and/or injury. if you can, get plate shoes, even used ones from someone in teh area.

in my opinion, no, they arent right for either. they are a bit tight on the plate, and a bit loose on the bases. i still have a pair of combos around for a backup, but thats it. id suggest investing in both plate and base pants, as each will look better for their application.

i like single bar masks, most of us around here do as well. look for a west vest (WV) or +POS mask, as both are pretty good quality, even though most dont like to wait for +POS slow service. i use a +POS AUL3000 "zero gravity" mask, and it gives me a great view, and it is very light. try to find a light mask, and try them on if possible. you dont want a heavy mask to weigh you down for a 3 hour game.

in a chest protector, look for the proper size and comfort. honigs and the other sites out there have sizing guides to help you figure out how big it should be. being new, and maybe not looking to get the best piece of equipment on the market right away, look to a lower end piece from honigs possible. i cant think of numbers, but they make quality equipment and i think you can find a good entry level protector on there.

lots of guys have moved to wearing full length hats behind the plate, but i am a combo guy behind the plate. if you wear your hats with the proper sizing, it shouldnt come off. i never have this problem, but if you do, make sure your hat is tight enough and that you are pulling your mask off correctly.

this is all up to you really. i would possibly recommend having one but only in your pocket. its basically like going without one, but if you find in the middle of a game you are having trouble, you can revert back to it. by starting out without one, you start a good habit of keeping track on your own, which could work its way behind the plate. i think i would work without an indicator, but have one in your pocket just to start out as a backup.

i dont wear UA stuff personally, but some guys do. a popular undershirt here is the McDavid InteraWear shirt. i like those a lot



one thing to remember, is that this this is an investment. you are going to use this equipment for a couple of years and its going to keep you safe. it is also going to make you some money in return, so try not to completely skimp out. buy mask pads that are comfortable, buy a chest protector that fits you correctly. you dont have to go out there and buy the #1 best pieces of equipment right away, but buy decent equipment that will let you do your job safely and comfortably behind the plate.

[Edited by briancurtin on Dec 19th, 2005 at 10:25 PM]

1. What's the minimum amount of equipment I need to get started (first 3-4 weeks)?

There are some pretty decent starter packages available from different equipment supliers. They cover the basic equipment needed to get you started, along with a uniform to help you look the part. You're going to want to get a pair of plate shoes, or at least a steel toed black athletic tennis shoe. You're going to need a good pair of black leather training type shoes for the bases as well. The rest is pretty much self explanatory. Ball bag, plate brush, indiclikikator, cup, and the three big protective items, chest protector, shin guards, and mask or helmet mask.

2. Are the combo pants really big enough to fit the shin guards for the plate? Do they look like bell bottoms on the bases?

In my opinion, no, their not. You should wear plate pants on the plate and base pants on the bases.

3. From what I understand, the chest protector and mask are pretty much your key pieces of equipment. What do I need to look for here?

Comfort and fit, combined with adequate protection for the level you're going to work. If you're only planning on working on the small field, there are numerous chest protectors at a decent cost for the beginner. If you plan on moving up to, or starting out working games where the players shave, you're going to want to look into a hard shell. As far as the mask goes, that a big personal preference. Some of us like the helmet mask, and others like the traditional style mask. Whichever one you choose, you should get one with leather or cloth covered pads. The simulated leather doesn't cut it in my opinion.

4. I don't like the look of pure plate hats. Does the combo hat come off when you pull off the mask or do you have to work on that to keep it from coming off?

As long as you purchase properly fitted hats, the combo hat's are not a problem for traditional style mask users. Most of us that use the helmet, don't wear a hat while on the plate.

5. Indicator on the bases to start out or no?

This has become a bane of contention amongst baseball officials. You should do what's accepted in your area.

6. I've worn under-armour stuff all season in football and basketball and expect to do the same baseball. Is UA stuff sufficient for the base layer under the equipment?

Absolutely, it's cool in the Summer, and helps keep you warm in the early Spring.

Here are some links for you to look at along with a basic protective equipment picture from Gerry Davis Sports.

http://www.honigs.com/detail.asp?Cat=1&Sub=97&Item=686

http://www.gerrydavis.com/Merchant2/...egory_Code=100


Good luck to you!

Tim.

http://www.gerrydavis.com/Merchant2/...001/combo7.jpg

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Dec 19th, 2005 at 10:41 PM]

Used stuff gives you the opportunity to get the best equipment and uniforms for the best price.

Find who the clothes HORSES (or whores) are in your association and hound them. They will probably be looking to upgrade for the winter deals and tax deductions soon so they're ripe for the pickins.

D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Texas Aggie
[B]

2. Are the combo pants really big enough to fit the shin guards for the plate? Do they look like bell bottoms on the bases?</B>

For some they are, for others they are not. I have a friend who has skinny legs and no ***. Plate pants look like clowns pants on him. The combos work fine as plate pants. But they are too bif for him on the bases and he wears base pants/

<b>3. From what I understand, the chest protector and mask are pretty much your key pieces of equipment. What do I need to look for here?</b>

What level of ball are you doing?

<B>4. I don't like the look of pure plate hats. Does the combo hat come off when you pull off the mask or do you have to work on that to keep it from coming off?</B>

Nobody should like the look of plate hats. Learn to take your maks off properly and you will be able to weight an 8 stitch hat behind the plate.

<b>5. Indicator on the bases to start out or no?</B>

At the beginning, follow your trainer's advice.

<b>6. I've worn under-armour stuff all season in football and basketball and expect to do the same baseball. Is UA stuff sufficient for the base layer under the equipment?</b>

Yes.

This is for HS ball, and the assignment secretary says he's agressive about getting new guys that show they can work into varsity ball. I'm not worried about that so much, but I'll probably be working 30-50% JV.

The GD vest pictured looks like a lot of foam. Is that true, and how does it protect compared to the shells like the West Vest? Pain I can deal with; injury I really can't.

Texas Aggie
 

I work with several Aggies, and they all say that wearing all that protective equipment is over-rated (especially the mask and cup). If you want to save some expense before you find out if you'll like this umpiring gig, you should forgo the mask, cadet.

Edited to say: Just kidding..don't want any injuries on my conscience.

[Edited by bluehair on Dec 20th, 2005 at 12:32 AM]

Nobody except Eddie Montague that is. :)

I have seen guys wear the Davis-Wilson chest protector (the one in the picture above) for D-III games. But, I have seen that protector in person, and I would not recommed it for your level. I would say go with the WV Gold or Platinum. If you end up liking baseball, you will be glad you have the protection of the WV, if you end up not liking baseball, you will be able to get a decent price for the WV on eBay.

I didn't nobody does, I said nobody should. ;)

Aggie:

If you're going to be working HS ball, then I would strongly recommend a hard shell protector. I've only see a few guys wear the Douglas hard shell, but they all swear by it. I found them at a decent price at the Douglas Equipment Web Site. It sells for $100.00, which is a good price, in my opinion, for a hard shell protector of this quality.

http://www.douglaspads.com/pc/catalog/z0000339_b.jpg


Tim.

Texas Aggie
Good equipment has no equal. If you don't feel protected behind the plate you won't have a good game. If you have to cut back a little, try to find used equipment or skimp at first and only buy one shirt instead to two or three. Doing extra laundry is less of a headache than getting injured. Bottom line is good equipment is worth the money. If you don't have a supplier in your area, check with some the other guys that are calling and try on their gear to see what you like. In the end, find equipment that you feel comfortable in and that affords you the best protection.
Brian

For HS varsity you need good quality protection.

1. What's the minimum amount of equipment I need to get started (first 3-4 weeks)?

Everything is needed.

2. Are the combo pants really big enough to fit the shin guards for the plate? Do they look like bell bottoms on the bases?

Yes, unless you get ridiculous large shin guards.

3. From what I understand, the chest protector and mask are pretty much your key pieces of equipment. What do I need to look for here?

Lightweight, excellent protection.

4. I don't like the look of pure plate hats. Does the combo hat come off when you pull off the mask or do you have to work on that to keep it from coming off?

Practice taking your mask off at home in front of a mirror. After a couple hundred reps you will be able to snatch that mask off without the cap.

5. Indicator on the bases to start out or no?

Yes. Use it as if you were behind the plate, but don't look at it very often and if you do do it without anyone knowing.

6. I've worn under-armour stuff all season in football and basketball and expect to do the same baseball. Is UA stuff sufficient for the base layer under the equipment?

Yes.

Open your account up to receive email and I will send you my personal list of starter items to buy that will be more than sufficient for HS ball and not break the bank.

For HS ball, don't skimp on the mask and chest protector. You are dealing with a missle coming at you at +70 mph (almost double that if you take a direct foul ball). I recommend only a hard shell chest protector (I use a West Vest Platinum) and a metal mask.

Gear to get started
 

I have to agree with all here who reccommend the hard shell.
The only area that you might be able to cut back on in starting out is the shoes. The first couple of years that I worked, I wore a pair of black steel toed rubber soled work shoes I got at Sears for $45. Once I knew I was going to stick with this, I purchased a pair of Gerry Davis Patent Leather plate shoes, can't beat the protection, but those will run you $140.

Huh? Good umpires don't need to carry indicators on the bases; they know the count without one. Balls and strikes are the responsiblity of the plate umpire. Trying to watch one's indicator when one should be doing base umpire duties is not a way to keep one focused.

Why even turn the dials? This is something the plate umpire should do. After all, it's his responsibility. Good communication--often subtle--by both umpires eliminates the need to do all this unnecessary stuff.

I used an indicator on the bases for a couple of games when I first started out. I didn't care for the way it felt in the set position or when making a safe call, so I ditched it.

In my association, it is optional for the base umpire to use one, but in many groups it is required of both umpires to use an indicator, regardless of their skill level.

It's better to look to your partner when you've lost the count than it is to have to ask a scorekeeper. That is unless, of course, you've never lost the count.


Tim.

I've never asked a scorekeeper or anyone else for that matter. If I want the count because I forgot it, which rarely happens I have to admit, there is a very subtle signal I use (if it can even be called a signal).

I can tell you that when I'm working the plate, my partners NEVER forget the count. From the second pitch on, I'm a plate umpire who gives the count on every pitch. I've done it for almost all of my 28-year career, and my crewmates seem to appreciate it.

Of course it's better to have everything.

You are asking for a minimum, no?

Mask, chest protector, shin guards, plate shoes = find them second hand. Who wants the pain in the butt of re-selling. That's just silly. You'll still be able to re-sell the used stuff if you are so inclined.

Buy your cup new. Undergarments, hats, and some sort of performance leg wear you'd probably prefer to be new, as well. The performance leg wear can be long underwear and a cup and jock or athletic tights with their own cup pocket. Keeps sweaty legs off your shin guards (you will appreciate that tip).

Uniforms and jackets...depends on the condition. I've always bought new but I've sold stuff that's starting to wear. If you hustle at the JV and lower levels, you can get away with some weathered stuff.

At the rookie level, you will (should) not be judged, pro or con, for using an indicator on the bases. Just work on not checking it too much.

Brush, pencil, ball bag, and belt wrap up your list. Do not break the bank. If you stick with it you can get new stuff next December.

D

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BigUmp56

Quote:

It's better to look to your partner when you've lost the count than it is to have to ask a scorekeeper. That is unless, of course, you've never lost the count. Tim.

What's that got to do with the question? I don't carry one, but you can still come to me for the count. When I get so feeble I can't remember three numbers, I'll quit.

[Edited by GarthB on Dec 20th, 2005 at 07:24 PM]

PWL,

I'm just asking, don't get all bent...How many years that you have "been around a ballfield" were spent umpiring, and how many as a player?

For years, the American League mechanic was to give the count after every pitch, and I have seen many that do it as well.

Personally, I usually give it at 2-1, 2-2, 0-2, 1-2, 3-0, 3-2, and whenever requested. Many fields do not have a scoreboard, but I would never rely on the scoreboard anyway, as they often display incorrect information. Players, coaches, and fans all appreciate an umpire who verbally gives the count, even if there's a scoreboard.

One more question: How does giving the count between pitches slow down the game?

My comment was not an answer to a question. It was a response to the comment that was made saying the count was the sole responsibility of the PU. Although the PU is responsible for all calls made on the batter, the count should be a shared responsibility amongst the crew just in case the count is lost by the PU.

I'm not presumptuous enough to believe that having two umpires with indicators is a bad thing. Then again, my ego is not nearly as big as others appear to be.

Tim(The LL one)

I started last year and the advice i got was to get the best equipment possible since if you buy some garbage equipment, you will end up replacing it in a year. Here's what i got for the important stuff:

Mask: Wilson dyna-lite
Chest Protector: Wilson MLU
Shin guards: Wilson leg guards
Plate Shoes: Tanel 360


Here's a brochure from the official supplier of Pennsylvania (.pdf format). You can order by mail, call, or email your order since i dont think you'll be able to stop in the store. Baseball starts on pg 16 and they have a great discount for starter packages.

http://www.piaa.org/Officials/POSmer...06Brochure.pdf

Let's get off the indicator and back to the questions at hand.

At a minimum; a mask (any mask), chest protector(any protector), shirt, some cheap pants with baggy legs from WalMart, combo hat, ball bag, black athletic looking shoes, indicator, and a pencil.

You probably will not be injured severely in 3-4 weeks with no shinguards, or a cup, a cheap mask and a cheap protector, although I don't recommend.

Buy cheap if you only want to last 3-4 weeks. Buy good stuff if you want to last longer.

Mmmmm,
 

WOW, what an intense question:

U Guys are Phunni!

1) I maybe condesending, arrogant and judgemental. I am not cynical. Learn the English language and then criticize.

2) I give the count verbally after EVERY pitch (fuk, a catcher that has a problem with that) and I give it to the group after every other pitch.

3) What a "bunch of crap" we talk about in the off season.

4) I cannot believe (let me rephrase that, "I am not surprised at all that PWL feels this is an issue") you guys talk about this $hit.

Why don't all umpires simply do what is acceptable in their area?

Big Dogs Rule (we can talk about regional politics any time), and if you don't believe that, "congrats on your JV schedule!"

And I love UMPIRES that say, "I like working JV games" . . . what a bunch of losers . . . if you don't want to work the "biggest game in town" then get out of the business.

Tee

No, that's NOT what I do. I've NEVER had anyone complain about me giving the count as frequently as I do. I'm known for working very well with catchers, and not one has ever said a word about that or anything close to it. Furthermore, I have far fewer coaches and other persons ask me what the count is simply because I give it so often.

Re: Mmmmm,
 

Ah, an umpire after my own heart. :D

I don't doubt that I'd enjoy working with ya, Tee. :)

Personally, I was always taught to give the count on the third and fifth pitch, after long delays, and when asked. The lower the level that you work the more that you have to adjust this. At the pro level they have multi-million dollar systems to give you every bit of information that you could ever possible want, but at the local ball park you are often luck to have a score board and some sober person to run it. Adjust the practices to fit the level of ball that you call. When in Rome..

Brian

I'm curious about the Wilson MLU vest. I see it in size 13, while I see other vests in size 17+. Does this mean the Wilson is short and leaves some area unprotected? If so, is there an extension?

The length which is right for you depends on your height, as taller people need a longer protector. The +POS website has a good picture showing the correct way to find your size.

http://pluspos.com/sizeinfo.html

I have used lightweight vests for 15 years and have used the GD vest for the last 2 years. I am 6-2 200++ pounds and make sure that my equipment takes the blows as it should. Been hit at all levels and have never missed an inning because of it. The heat seems to bother me more than others and the lightweight helps on those hot days.

Your positioning behind the plate is just AS important as the equipment you use. But ultimately, it your decision. You could have the best equipment in the world and get hit in the unprotected places because of your positioning.

I also give the count behind the plate after every pitch because I don't use an indaclickercounter. Again go with the loacals until you develope what is good for you.

The extra bucks you spend on your equipment is well worth it when you have to give it to a doctor or miss assignments because you are injured.

Welcome and good luck.

Hahahaha,
 

PWL I not 60 how coulkd you be so cruel!

Brag about your area and how good the games are and SanDiegoSteve will jump in and name drop MLB players and umpires from his area.

I contend that there is very little difference in the quality of high school baseball across America. While each individual area may offer fine individual talent but we have found, through research, that high school baseball across the board is very similar in quality.

I will say this:

Like all areas of America we have some stinko teams but we also have quality programs.

And as I hjave stated time-and-time again: I have never worked a game to have fun. In fact I have never placed "having fun" on my list of things to worry about at a game.

Love ya PWL, your homophobic side shows so quickly it scares the heck outta me.

Tee

Okay you guys, it’s almost Christmas, I want you to group hug and make up :-)

PWL, like yourself over the years I have adopted a few simple things like you mentioned to help speed the game along. They are good suggestions.

Tim C:
IMHO there is a difference in the overall quality of baseball in larger metropolitan areas versus small rural areas. I have worked teams in both areas. But again, that’s only one man’s opinion.

The count:
When it comes to the count, I do not give the count after each pitch, unless asked. I do indicate the count on 3-0, 3-2, after a pitch to the backstop, or following a long break in play. But I work with guys that do indicate the count verbally after each pitch…doesn’t matter to me what they do in this situation.

Indiclicker:
I use my indicator on the bases, but work with guys that don’t…. again it doesn’t matter to me what they do in this situation.


And finally -- fun:
The only reason I umpire is for fun. It’s not for the money because there aren’t many schools out there that could (or would) match the rate I charge my clients for an hour of my time. This is going to sound a little corny, but I feel that it is a real privilege to be able to umpire baseball games. It doesn’t matter what level I’m working, if you see me out there I’m having fun. When it stops being fun, I’m all done.

I umpire for the love of the game, I won't turn the money away and if most of the that I go out I don't enjoy myself, I will give it up. Until then viva la Braves and to hell with the rats.

As far as equipment, the only place I could see skimping would be on the shin guards. I have seen little difference between the lower cost ones and the more expensive ones.

I would highly recommend using some form of foot protection. You could get a high quality steel toe athletic type shoe , but be sure to get shin guards that have some form of metatarsal protection attached to it. I was mentoring a very talented young umpire who did not have plate shoes, and he would not wear mine. He was excellent, until he got hit in the toe with a foul ball. After that, he was never the same.

As to the side tangent, I give the count on every pitch. Quietly, verbally to the catcher and batter, and formally every other pitch. This establishes a rhythm for me during the game which, to me, is important.

I will carry an indicator on the bases, but I put it in my pocket.

Bob

My annual investment in umpiring including clinics, uniform and equipment replacement, membership dues and gasoline is over $2500. So. based on a 150 game season, I'm out at least $16.66 every time I walk on the field. Not calculated in that figure is loss of income from missed work, assigning fees and insurance at least another $2500.

Game fees are a very important consideration to umpiring for me. Fun? If I had to have fun at every game I'd have quit a long time ago. Satisfaction of doing the job well is much more important to me than "fun". If I want fun, I'll go to the lake and spend the day on my boat.

Now, before some LL'er gets on me about charitable work or returning something to the game, save your breath. Last year my charitable contributions equaled 12% of my adjusted gross. I also volunteer my time at my parish and with youth organizations.

Will the Real PWL Please Stand UP
 

PWL #1

"Why don't you write another one of your long winded boring articles on this issue. Big Dog. More like Big Mouth. I don't find you arrogant, condesending, and judgmental. Just hypocritical. You talk about McGriffs and you spout this garbage out of your pie hole."

PWL #2

"Enjoy you(r) holidays!!!!"


Will PWL #1 Please Sit DOWN!!

Bob

Re: Mmmmm,
 

Cynical indicates a disillusioned attitude that has hardened into extreme bitterness, although this may be leavened with resignation.

Jaundiced is a more informal and colorful substitute for cynical, suggesting a hard-bitten skeptic who prefers to look at something or at everything from a negative point of view.

From Use The Right Word by S. I. Hayakawa

Both seem to me to be accurate descriptions.

Also, it's "condescending" and "judgmental," rather than the way you spelled them. "Maybe" should be "may be", since "maybe" is a word that means "perhaps." English is my native tongue.

[Edited by SanDiegoSteve on Dec 21st, 2005 at 04:47 PM]

Fun is relative.

Some people find jumping out of planes fun.

Others think calibrating screw threads is fun.

Fun to some is accounting or sculpting or bird watching.

Fun to others is tattooing (and other forms of self mutilation) or binge drinking or ski mobiling.

Tee doesn't find the stress of perfection under fire fun. I do. I get a rush out of succeeding, especially pulling a success out of a potential failure.

I also live a boring life.

D

Well Tim, the State of Alabama would be
that presumptuous. Indacountaclickers are
forbidden for base umpires in High School ball.