PBUC , J/R, and Evans

[WhatWuzThatBlue]

No, I don't, I've accepted the terms and ignored the baiting by those who can't debate well. You will need to live by the agreement or lose your privleges. I'm not worried about my behavior, none of my posts have been edited or deleted since I returned.

You still are having a problem with the name thing, but I imagine that Brad, Mick or Bob can clear that up for you. Keep pressing, your coming apart at the seams. You are a disruptor and that is apparent to all.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by WhatWuzThatBlue
Keep pressing, your coming apart at the seams.

Another example of your superior writing talent.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by Kaliix
You still don't get it do you? So let's set the record straight. I never ever said that I thought it was a good idea to send a rookie umpire out by himself. And believe it or not, I understand why it isn't a good idea and I agree that in a perfect world, it wouldn't happen.

That though, has nothing to do with your insulting of my, or any other association, who has to work games with only one umpire.

I did not start this little debate about an association "having the jewels" to change the rules, you did. I gave you a chance to retract your statement and you didn't. Instead you went on to insult my association again. Hence you are officially BigDump for this discussion, since that is what you choose to do on my association.

You have absolutely no idea of the dynamics of my area. You don't know the economic climate of the region, the taxpayers associations that have continually cut school budgets and forced some sports to not be offered due to lack of funds. You don't know the belief by some ignorant folks that money shouldn't be "wasted" on sports, or that some schools have considered or implemented a pay for play policy. All of these factors make money incredibly tight. School districts don't have "extra money" just hanging around to pay the umpires when when we decide we want double fees for Frosh and JV games.

So get off your high horse and stop insulting associations that "don't have jewels" as you put it, to demand two umpires for every game. Some schools simply cannot pay and would flat out refuse such a request or would tell us to take a flying leap and use someone else to do their games.

While your utopian two man per game sentiment is nice, it does not work when viewed through the harsh economic reality of today. It has nothing to do with jewels...

Thank you Kaliix, you have saved me time by hitting on every point that I was just about to.

I told Tim that I was going to crack back on him hard for his remarks concerning associations such as ours as having no jewels. As I previously posted, the CIF is a powerful body, and I am sure most other states have equally powerful federations that dictate how their games are to be officiated.

You have stolen all my thunder, Kaliix.

Tim, quit calling other associations jeweless for not doing it your way. I am sure no assignor will throw a rookie out without at least a little prior experience, or at least a little classroom and/or field clinic training.

Steve

[GarthB]

Old WCB wrote:

Garth,
I read your earlier post and understand what you wrote. You are correct that you won't convince me to change my stance on VO. Your mockery of Pete was expected. He made a grammatical mistake and you jumped all over it. Check out what I wrote to TAC, it applies equally to you. You must be a legendary umpire in your parts. I would love to see the umpire who never makes mistakes at work. When is your next game?

You are making assumptions again. I never claimed to work perfectly. You are welcome to my next game, tomorrow evening 6:30 in Spokane Valley, Mens Adult Rec Basketball. I'll be the referee in two man mechanics.

Now, did I jump "Pete of AZ" for a glaring grammatical error? Yes, I did. But think for a moment. Have you seen me jump you for such an error? (Yes, you have made some.) Do you see me jump at every such error? "No", you'd say if you were being honest.

Here's an excellent example: when was the last time you saw me correct or point out an error in one of Jeff's posts? Can't name a time, can you? Why? Jeff is not pretending, or claiming, to be a college level educator.

I jumped at Pete's error only because he was making such a big deal about his education and his alleged occupation of teaching. It was like the old bowing alley, he set the five pin up; I just picked up the spare. Just as you like to go after Tee for his arrogance, I enjoy deflating the false pompousness of the allegedly over-educated.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pete,
You've now experienced the best they have to offer. BigUmp56 and SanDiegoSteve are one trick ponies. Where one stops, the other starts; it is often difficult to see where. TAC actually knows his stuff but he is somehow relegating himself to criticizing writing skills. It's a sad turn of events. Garth is Garth; I actually like seeing him take a stance and committing himself to the battle. He has had more than a few run ins with Carl and can hold his own. I'm not sure why he has jumped on the Grammar Police bandwagon either. Usually that is a last resort for those who can't debate and he can.

Thanks for the compliment. I really take stands more often than people think. However, as I have aged, I do so less emotionally and endter into fewer arguments than I used to.

It was a mistake to divulge your career. Some of these guys are filled with contempt for anyone who has achieved more than themselves. I'm not a fan of attorneys but applaud anyone who teaches.

I have no contempt for real attorneys, anyone with the ambition to get an education or those who excell in life. But it is so easy to claim something on the internet and get away with it. Here, watch: I am an attorney.

See how easy that was? Heck, and I even post my real ID, not some candy-a$$ anonymous pen name like "Pete in AZ" or well, you know.

Watch, I'll do it again: "I'm a superior court judge."

Wow. I'm good.

No, Petey will have to do better than terrible posts and unconvincing arguments to sell himself as an attorney and a "pre-law" teacher. BTW, most pre-law educators I know are professors or adjunct professors or instructors, not teachers, but they might do things differently in AZ.

Any way, thanks again for the kind words. I'm sorry for your misunderstandings. I hoped we've cleared things up.

To recap: No, I'm not perfect. You've made some incorrect assumptions. Pete still walks like a duck and my next game is tomorrow night. Bring some beer.

[Edited by GarthB on Nov 20th, 2005 at 10:57 PM]

[D-Man]

I think the J/R is cool.

So is the BRD!

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by GarthB

You are welcome to my next game, tomorrow evening 6:30 in Spokane Valley, Mens Adult Rec Basketball. I'll be the referee in two man mechanics.

You mean you don't work one-man basketball?

No, Petey will have to do better than terrible posts and unconvincing arguments to sell himself as an attorney and a "pre-law" teacher. BTW, most pre-law educators I know are professors or adjunct professors or instructors, not teachers, but they might do things differently in AZ.

Actually, in defense of Pete (yes, I am nuts, thank you), he said he had a pre-law degree, and that he was a teacher. He never said he was an attorney, or that he taught pre-law.

But I'm Batman! Shhhhhh!!! Don't tell anyone!!!

Aw hell, sorry Garth, I just read his post again. He does claim to teach "pre-law." Sorry.

[Edited by SanDiegoSteve on Nov 20th, 2005 at 11:08 PM]

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by D-Man
I think the J/R is cool.

So is the BRD!

As does everyone, but that wasn't the subject of the thread. We're pretty much in agreement that all the manuals are useful tools, but they are not universally applied, so they remain "opinion only" at the amateur level. I want to know a way to make them mainstream, and affordable for everyone.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

Actually, in defense of Pete (yes, I am nuts, thank you), he said he had a pre-law degree, and that he was a teacher. He never said he was an attorney, or that he taught pre-law.

But I'm Batman! Shhhhhh!!! Don't tell anyone!!!

Per Petey in AZ:

" I said that I didn't find his way of writing to be condescending because I teach and have a law degree. I am surrounded by people who try to impress each other all day. I teach pre-law and enjoy not having to hear and see I said that I didn't find his way of writing to be condescending because I teach and have a law degree. I am surrounded by people who try to impress each other all day. I teach pre-law and enjoy not having to hear and see preening attorneys before the bench."

Granted, in the above he never outright claims to be an attorney. But he does say has a law degree and "teaches pre-law" because he prefers that to seeing and hearing preening attorneys before the bench, giving, at least, the illusion that he is an attorney.

But, in his favor, I guess he could have flunked the bar exam after getting a law degree and found some college somewhere that would hire him. Or, he could be lying. Who knows?

[Dave Reed]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve


Actually, in defense of Pete (yes, I am nuts, thank you), he said he had a pre-law degree, and that he was a teacher. He never said he was an attorney, or that he taught pre-law.

But I'm Batman! Shhhhhh!!! Don't tell anyone!!!

I can't resist entering a 9 page thread.

Read the last post of page 6 of this thread and Pete in AZ's earlier post on the same page. You'll see that he claims a law degree and that he teaches pre-law. I do agree that he hasn't directly claimed to be an attorney.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Yeah, Garth, I edited my post to reflect that. I went back and re-read his posts. My bad.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve

As does everyone, but that wasn't the subject of the thread. We're pretty much in agreement that all the manuals are useful tools, but they are not universally applied, so they remain "opinion only" at the amateur level. I want to know a way to make them mainstream, and affordable for everyone.

Until amateur umpiring becomes nationalized, which will never happen, they will not be universally applied.

But they are applied today by intelligent associations and leagues and are more than opinion. They are authoritative opinion and they carry weight with many BOD's, leagues and associations. I don't understand why you are fighting so hard.

You want MLB to come out and say, "The JEA is Gospel." Won't happen. We have to move on and use what is available. You have a choice to support yourself with the likes of the JEA or the opinion of Ernie down the street at Aunt Martha's Pie and Screen Door Company.

[Dave Reed]

Originally posted by SanDiegoSteve
Just to try to salvage this thread, I will bring it back on topic.

Examle: The PBUC says you cannot overrun first base on a base on balls, without liability of being put out. They say, as does Jim Evans, that the runner is only protected up to the base. The rules don't say that. They make absolutely no distinction between a hit or a walk. The Knotty Problems book says you can overrun first on a base on balls. That used to be my source. I guess I can just throw that old piece of crap out now. So, my question is.....unless every umpire on the face of the earth has access to interpretations such as the PBUC, Evans' manual, J/R, BRD, etc., how are we to uniformly rule on situations such as these?

Answer: We're not.

Do you have a citation number from the PBUC Umpire Manual to support your assertion?
Thanks,
Dave Reed

[BigUmp56]

Ummmmm Steve,

Pete did say he had a law degree and that he taught pre-law.

On to the association issue.

For those of you that work games in an asociation that will not assign at least a two man crew:

I now have a better understanding of where you're coming from. I still don't understand why you took my opinions so personal.

I said nothing insulting about your particular association, it's members or yourself. My comments were, and still are my opinion on what I feel is not a good policy.

If you feel it's a good policy then that's your right. I have the right to feel otherwise. Because I disagree with President Bush's policies, does not mean I'm insulting you when I say he's an idiot, does it?

None of you have said that you feel rookies working solo is a good policy. You've only said that's what your stuck with for various reasons. Have you ever considered discussing this with the officers of your association? You may find out they feel the way I do, but are simply unable to effect change.

Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by Dave Reed

Do you have a citation number from the PBUC Umpire Manual to support your assertion?
Thanks,
Dave Reed

Dave,

This particular example is from the PBUC web site. I do not own the manual.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by BigUmp56
Ummmmm Steve,

Pete did say he had a law degree and that he taught pre-law.

On to the association issue.

For those of you that work games in an asociation that will not assign at least a two man crew:

I now have a better understanding of where you're coming from. I still don't understand why you took my opinions so personal.

I said nothing insulting about your particular association, it's members or yourself. My comments were, and still are my opinion on what I feel is not a good policy.

If you feel it's a good policy then that's your right. I have the right to feel otherwise. Because I disagree with President Bush's policies, does not mean I'm insulting you when I say he's an idiot, does it?

None of you have said that you feel rookies working solo is a good policy. You've only said that's what your stuck with for various reasons. Have you ever considered discussing this with the officers of your association? You may find out they feel the way I do, but are simply unable to effect change.

Tim.

Tim,

If I worked for the Bush administration, I would take your remarks personally. If I were say, Dick Cheney, yeah, I'd be pissed at you. Most people identify with their particular organization. They often remain loyal to their association, even when others jump around to different ones. When you insult associations that assign solo games, you are insulting its members by proxy. Can you now see how that is taken personally?

Yes Tim, we all think one-man is not the ideal situation. And the leaders of our associations feel the same way, I'm sure. Who doesn't think two is better than one? Three's better than two, but we don't refuse to work games because the schools only want two, do we? We all found out that six is too many.

Steve

[Edited by SanDiegoSteve on Nov 22nd, 2005 at 09:33 AM]