I just had the misfortune of listening to another fool giving his own rendition of the Star Spangled (actually "Mangled") Banner at the opening of the World Series. Where do the teams dig up these schmucks? This clown sounded like he was singing a funeral dirge. The National Anthem should be sung as it was written, with no personal interpretations.

Bob

As a poem?

I didn't think it was bad, actually.

National Anthem
 

Well BZ...where have you been? Most folks with any kind of culture would know who that young man was. Oh he can sing and he did an excellent job. That "clown" is globally renowned for his singing talent.

Uh Bob, I hate to burst your bubble but there is no "as written" tune.

From the library of Congress at http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/trm065.html

<i>In 1814, Francis Scott Key wrote new words for a well-known drinking song, "To Anacreon in Heaven," to celebrate America's recent victory over the British. However, only in 1931, following a twenty-year effort during which more than forty bills and joint resolutions were introduced in Congress, was a law finally signed proclaiming "The Star Spangled Banner" to be the national anthem of the United States.</i>


From Information Please at http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0194015.html

<i>On Sept. 13, 1814, Francis Scott Key visited the British fleet in Chesapeake Bay to secure the release of Dr. William Beanes, who had been captured after the burning of Washington, DC. The release was secured, but Key was detained on ship overnight during the shelling of Fort McHenry, one of the forts defending Baltimore. In the morning, he was so delighted to see the American flag still flying over the fort that he began a poem to commemorate the occasion. First published under the title “Defense of Fort M'Henry,” the poem soon attained wide popularity <b>as sung to the tune “To Anacreon in Heaven.” The origin of this tune is obscure, but it may have been written by John Stafford Smith, a British composer born in 1750.</b> “The Star-Spangled Banner” was officially made the national anthem by Congress in 1931, although it already had been adopted as such by the army and the navy.</i>

The Star Spangled Banner was written by Francis Scott Key in 1814 as a poem and was titled "Defence of Fort McHenry". His brother-in-law recognized that the words fit the tune "To Anacreon in Heaven," a popular drinking song from the mid 1700's.

That song was written in the key of C. Most band arrangements today are written in the key of A flat. Vocal arrangements depend on the range of the singer.

I don't know anyone who sings it as it was originally written. I have a copy of the original sheet music. You would barely recognize a perfomrance of it. It was written in 6/4 rather than the 3/4 of modern arrangements and the rhythm of the opening line is different that today. Instead of the words "O-oh say can you see?" being dotted eighth, sixteenth, quarter, quarter, quarter, half, as today's versions; they are quarter, dotted quarter, eighth, quarter, quarter.

In my all my various experiences including those of a sports official, member of the military, musician, band director and many others, I have never heard a bad arrangement of our National Anthem. Some may be better than others, but I enjoy hearing it played everytime.

[Edited by GarthB on Oct 22nd, 2005 at 08:53 PM]

As an uncultured one, and one who missed the tune, who was the world renowned singer who sang it?

JJ

PS Garth, did you not hear Roseanne Barr's rendition a few years ago? I'm not real picky but that one was not nice to listen to...

As an uncultured one, and one who missed the tune, who was the world renowned singer who sang it?

JJ


Josh Groban

TY. I am familiar with his magnificent pipes. Sorry I missed his rendition...

JJ

That was a beautiful rendition of the Anthem. Much better than when some Motown star takes 10 minutes to sing it. This version did not drag on, and was sung right on key!

I just had the misfortune of listening to another fool giving his own rendition of the Star Spangled (actually "Mangled") Banner at the opening of the World Series. Where do the teams dig up these schmucks? This clown sounded like he was singing a funeral dirge. The National Anthem should be sung as it was written, with no personal interpretation
_________________________

You mean how you want it heard right? Thats the right way? Oh boy.

Sorry I missed that. I love the pure tone in his voice and he also does a great rendition of the Christmas song, "O Holy Night."

Actually, he's a very classical style of singer, obviously that's his background.

Thanks
David

Hey, how was the umpiring in the game?? HAHAHA

BP

I should also like to add that when the Star Spangled Banner is played or sung correctly, it should take no more that 65 to 70 seconds for it to be sung or played.

MTD, Sr.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by GarthB
[B]The Star Spangled Banner was written by Francis Scott Key in 1814 as a poem and was titled "Defence of Fort McHenry". His brother-in-law recognized that the words fit the tune "To Anacreon in Heaven," a popular drinking song from the mid 1700's.

That song was written in the key of C. Most band arrangements today are written in the key of A flat. Vocal arrangements depend on the range of the singer.

I don't know anyone who sings it as it was originally written. I have a copy of the original sheet music. You would barely recognize a perfomrance of it. It was written in 6/4 rather than the 3/4 of modern arrangements and the rhythm of the opening line is different that today. Instead of the words "O-oh say can you see?" being dotted eighth, sixteenth, quarter, quarter, quarter, half, as today's versions; they are quarter, dotted quarter, eighth, quarter, quarter.

In my all my various experiences including those of a sports official, member of the military, musician, band director and many others, I have never heard a bad arrangement of our National Anthem. Some may be better than others, but I enjoy hearing it played everytime.

[Edited by GarthB on Oct 23rd, 2005 at 01:34 PM]

I recorded an acapella version of it a couple of years ago for use at a local ballpark. They had been using the arduous Whitney Houston version for several years which is good, but when it's 97 degrees my 1:03 version is more tolerable (my voice notwithstanding!)...

JJ

These "pop" singers usually butcher the Anthem. A National Anthem should not be open to the singer's version. Listen the the PA announcer for the Cubs sing it. Listen to someone from Cleveland sing it. Heck, a singer from Canada (on the hockey games) sings it better. Listen to a military chorus sing it.

Tonight Lew Rawls even ADDED words that are not in the song.

'“To Anacreon in Heaven.” The origin of this tune is obscure, but it may have been written by John Stafford Smith, a British composer born in 1750.'

It was an old English drinking song.

Bob

wayne messmer does a great rendition of the anthem.

most songs did come from the pubs
 

So many of our songs that we know today have come from the pubs and the bars.

The familiar song "Amazing Grace" was a german pub song originally and you really would not even recognize the tune.

Same with so many of the other tunes.

People take an old tune, rearrange it and then it becomes familiar.

Thanks
David

Re: most songs did come from the pubs
 

Actually, "Amazing Grace" was written in 1779 by John Newton. He was an athiest slave trader, who, upon sailing in the Atlantic Ocean in 1748, found Gods's grace during a terrible storm that nearly shipwrecked him. He wrote the entire song, except for the last verse, which was added later.

This subject has been Pastor David Jeremiah's sermon messages for the past month. Check out archived services at http://www.shadowmountain.org

Re: Re: most songs did come from the pubs
 

Guys, there's two parts to a song.

The tune - which is the actual notes to the song (these came from the original tune which has since been claimed to be an American tune from the old tunebooks)

The text - the words to the song.

Mr. Newton wrote the text to the song which has since been actually modified some depending on the hymnal.

Surely this is an umpires website, but with my masters in Church Music, I've spent most of my life studying - its very interesting actually ...

BTW, I love to hear David Jeremiah, acutally listen to their service on internet several times a month.

Thanks
David

I love the anthem. I think it's great. I also like (aside from Rosanne Barr's) when people try to do their own interpretations. Sure some of them stink, but if people didn't experiment, you'd never have Marvin Gaye in the greatest rendition of the song perhaps ever.

My pet peeve with the anthem, though, is that I'm not really sure I understand why we have to start all sporting events with it. It seems very silly to me that the only place most people hear it is before sporting contests almost always (other than occasionally in hockey and very ocassionally in baseball and basketball) between two domestic teams.

It almost cheapens it a little -- I can think of so many places where it should be played and is not, yet we all think it fits at sporting events. Weird is all.

Re: Re: Re: most songs did come from the pubs
 

David Jeremiah is my pastor, and I get to enjoy him live each week!

Thank goodness we didn't have to sit through (stand through?) a Canadian National Anthem as well!

As for "Amazing Grace"; wasn't Newton an alcoholic? And that was the main reason for his penning of the song?

(From Snopes.com, a slayer of urban legends)

A number of legends circulate about why John Newton, a slavetrader-turned-minister, penned the hymn 'Amazing Grace.' Most attempt to explain the seemingly inexplicable: How could one who made his living trading in the misery of others have put into words such a powerful message of personal salvation?

As is common with any number of music legends about particular songs, some will always look to events in the writers' lives that might have sparked such compositions. Thus are born tales of wild storms and pacts with God, as are stories about religious awakenings that prompted a slaver to set his cargo free. But the truth is far less poetic: 'Amazing Grace' is a song about salvation, but it wasn't composed until long after its writer had left his seafaring days behind him and become a minister.

John Newton (1725-1807) first worked as a slave buyer in Africa and later moved on to a position of captain on slave ships. He continued to make his living in the slave trade after becoming a Christian at the age of 23 in 1748. A violent storm at sea brought about his commitment to Christianity, but it was escaping with his own life that inspired him to get religion, not guilt over enslaving others. (Though this event is often pointed to as "the" conversion, it really was only the first of many such pacts with the Almighty struck by Newton, each one brought about by his close shaves with death.)

Newton quit the sea (and the slave trade) in 1754 or 1755. He did not free any of his merchandise on that 1748 trip, or on any others. Though he might have become a Christian, he did not yet allow it to interfere with his making a living.

In 1754 or 1755, he became a Tides Surveyor in Liverpool (a form of Customs Officer charged with searching for contraband and paid with half the swag taken from others). It was at this point Newton first began to express an interest in the ministry, but at the time was unable to decide between the Methodist and Anglican faiths. He was ultimately ordained a priest in the Church of England in 1764.

Newton most likely composed 'Amazing Grace' in 1772, athough there is no clear agreement on the date. According to one biographer, the hymn was penned along with a great many others during an informal hymn-writing competition he was having with William Cowper, another noted hymn writer. If so, that casts doubt upon this particular composition's being solely a cathartic outpouring of wonder over the Lord's mercy — there are, after all, only so many themes that can be expounded upon in a hymn, and personal salvation is one of them.

Newton began to express regrets about his part in the slave trade only in 1780, thirty-two years after his conversion, and eight years after he wrote 'Amazing Grace.' In 1785 he began to fight against slavery by speaking out against it, and he continued to do so until his death in 1807.

Thus, the bare bones of the story are true: A former slave trader did compose one of the most moving hymns of our times. But the meat of the claim — that a horrific event spurred a sinner to immediately repent his evil ways, penning 'Amazing Grace' as an expression of his repentence — fails on the facts. Newton's storm-driven adoption to Christianity didn't change him all that much; he continued to make his living from the slave trade for many years afterwards and only left the trade when his wife insisted upon their living a settled life in England. (Indeed, less than a year after his storm-driven conversion, Newton was back in Africa, brokering the purchase of newly-captured blacks and taking yet another "African wife" while there. He was hardly the poster boy for the truly penitent, at least at that point in his life.)

Newton did eventually grow into his conversion, so that by the end of his days he actually was the godly man one would expect to have penned 'Amazing Grace.' But it was a slow process effected over the passage of decades, not something that happened with a clap of thunder and a flash of lightning. In Newton's case, the "amazing grace" he wrote of might well have referred to God's unending patience with him.

<i>Sources

Gray, Alice (editor). Stories for a Faithful Heart.
Sisters, OR: Multnomah Publishers, 2000.

Bumiller, Elisabeth. "The President Makes Danger His Campaign Theme." The New York Times. 25 January 2004.

Martin, Bernard. John Newton: A Biography. London: Heinemann, 1950.

Pollock, John. Amazing Grace: John Newton's Story.
San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1981.

Swift, Catherine. John Newton. Minneapolis: Bethany House, 1991. </i>


[Edited by GarthB on Oct 24th, 2005 at 02:55 PM]

Garth,
As you know, being a Senior Umpire, we officials need to be versed on a wide variety of topics!

Your dissertation didn't mention it . . . but slavery was quite legal in the United States until the mid - 1800's. Hardly a reason for Newton to feel too much remorse; as you've pointed out. Much less a reason to write a song based on his personal feelings. The contest idea sounds more like the truth.

It is curious on why so many AA groups use "Amazing Grace" as their anthem though.

Jerry

However, Newton was British and lived in London. Slavery was abolished in Great Britain in 1772 and without bloodshed.

Garth,
My sources tell me that the slave trade in Great Britain was outlawed in 1807; but slavery itself wasn't abolished there until 1833. There was quite the influx of slaves to Canada, Australia and the United States up to the mid-nineteenth century; some legal; many illegal.

I'm not sure where Newton fit into all of that.

I'm also not sure when he wrote the music for the Star Spangled Banner or the Canadian National Anthem; but it must have been during that time.

Jerry

1. Slavery was ruled illegal in Great Britain by its highest court On February 17th, 1772. Your sources may be referencing a subsequent act by parliament.

<i>"The King's Bench, Britain's highest court, accepted the case on February 17, 1772. Lord Mansfield himself had been appointed chief justice to that court. Hence, he found himself in the odd position of deciding an appeal of his own prior ruling. On Monday, June 22, 1772, King's Bench Chief Justice, Judge William Murray, first Earl of Mansfield, and former speaker of the House of Lords (at left), overturned his own ruling, the one that he had made on that fateful Christmas day, six months before almost to the day. He was asked to write the final decision of the appeals court. He reasoned that slavery was so odious and unnatural that nothing but positive law could support it. No such law being found to exist, Mansfield concluded that there was no legal backing for slavery in England. Furthermore, he judged that English civil rights applied to all, and so no Black person could be removed from England against their wishes. He wrote the following words into British common law -- words that have been memorized by British schoolchildren ever since. "The air of England is too pure for a slave to breathe, and so everyone who breathes it becomes free. Everyone who comes to this island is entitled to the protection of English law, whatever oppression he may have suffered and whatever may be the colour of his skin."</i>

2. You are confused. Newton had nothing to do with the National Anthem. The tune was by John Stafford Smith, words, of course, by Francis Scott Key.

Slavery was outlawed in British colonies in 1833. All slaves in the entire empire were emancipated in 1834, but they were not free. They were now indentured servants to their former owners.

That's just half the story.

Murray's decision was then appealed to the High Court and the decision was as I posted above. The court ruling DID indeed, according to the history of British Law, make slavery illegal IN Great Britain.

OK, why don't we talk about some of the good and bad renditions you've heard sung:

Good -- The Dixie Chicks at the Supoer Bowl in San Diego a few years ago. You can find this one on any illegal file sharing service you may have.

Bad -- Carl Lewis. Don't know when it was exactly, but it was horrible. His voice cracked near the end. He even said something like "Sorry bout that" right in the middle of it. Horrible singing, but pretty damn funny.

Any other nominations?

Discuss.

Good, bad and ugly
 

Ugly: Carl Lewis was bad, but not nearly as bad as Roseanne. To this day, she is banned from the TV in our house. We even gave in and watched "Monster in law" with Hanoi Jane. We will NEVER forgive Roseanne.

Bad: Willie Nelson, who was either drunk or stoned or both.

Bad and good: Jose Feliciano, Jimi Hendrix.

Good: Whitney Houston. Statler Brothers. Mo Cheeks rescuing the girl in Portland last season. Cubs PA man. Air Force Band & Choir. Many others, but those are at the top of my mind...

Someone asked why they play it before every game...I have seen several credible accounts about how that goes back to either 1917 or 1918 World Series. Anyway, around WWI a band played it...a real band...before a World Series game.

The Dixie Chicks are truly talented, however, after their tirade against the President, they are banned in my house.

As I said, I've never heard a bad arrangement, just some that aren't as good as others.

The best:

1. London Philharmonic
2. San Jose State Symphonic Band (arr. Scott Pierson)
3. USMC Drum and Bugle Corps
4. The US Air Force Band
5. Jimi Hendrix
6. The Navy Band
7. Boston Pops (arr. Richard Hayman)
8. Aretha Franklin
9. Bruce Springsteen (Instrumental...a bit long, but good)
10. Acoustix (a cappela) (BTW, These guys also do a great vocal arrangement of Stars and Stripes... words and music by John Phillip Sousa)

[Edited by GarthB on Oct 24th, 2005 at 09:59 PM]

When teams see me coming, they start praying and singing Amazing Grace.:D

Are there crib notes on all this history - and what day is the test? I must have missed the day that was announced...

For those of you not familiar, http://www.snopes.com is a great website for proving or disproving urban legends and popular myths and legends that circulate. I've been using that site for years to reply to folks who FORWARD me mail with headings "I Swear This Is True!!!"...

Gee, Garth..you didn't mention MY rendition in your top 10 list....wait a minute...you've never HEARD it! Probably just as well, looking at the list;)

JJ

Doesn't "indentured" have something to do with teeth?

And for Garth . . . I didn't know all those singers and musicians you listed even did a rendition of "Amazing Grace".

And wasn't Newton the same guy that invented figs?

Jerry

Well, I liked it
 

JG did a fine job - the only version I ever hated was Ms. Barr's and I haven't watched her show since.

BZ - 2 questions...

1 - Exactly who & how should it be sung since you're the expert

2 - Are you gonna get yourself laughed off ANOTHER forum?

I thought Josh Groban sang an excellent rendition of the National Anthem before the game. His tonal quality was beautiful. It was rich and full of feeling in my opinion, not the monotone garbage I'm used to hearing.

I'm surprised that none of you have commented on the woman who sang during the seventh inning stretch. What local bar did they pull her out of to sing for the entire country? For some reason, her singing reminded me of a flower child sitting at a camp fire almost too stoned to move, winging her way through it. She was the epitome of bad to me.

I'm hoping they'll get Lee Greenwood to appear during at least one of the games in the series to sing "God Bless the U.S.A."

It's a favorite in our household, and it has a tendency to bring a tear to more than one persons eye when he sings it.

Tim.

[Edited by bigump56 on Oct 25th, 2005 at 01:07 PM]

1. Indentured: <i>pt of indenture; to indent, as in the first line of each paragraph was indentured.</i>

2. Actually all but Jimi have renditions of Amazing Grace.

3. No, Newton is the guy who sings like a girl and lives in Las Vegas.

Danke Schoen.

Garth,
Just imagine Jimi's rendition of the Star Spangled Banner at an AA meeting! Instead of Newton's "Amazing Grace". I bet there'd be a ton more folks showing up to swear off of the booze. Or hitting some more "tokes"!

Somehow, the term "indentured" sure got screwed up over the years. I'm thinking now that it means, "a set of false teeth, worn by slaves; but with the first four spaces missing." That should cover it.

Didn't George Washington have a set of wooden false teeth? And he owned slaves? Hmmmmmmmm. Coincedence?

Jerry

P.S. I loved the Newton-Las Vegas connection. Very good. Now I'm wondering if those are really Wayne's teeth.

indentured servitude
 

Indentured servitude goes back to the times of serfs and lords when a contract was written in duplicate on the same sheet of paper. The copies were separated by cutting along what we would today call a jagged line. It was called "indentured" because you could prove the two contract pieces were real by matching the "teeth" (jagged parts) when the two parts were later put together.

(apparently there was no carbon paper around England back then...but there was carbon stuff in other parts of the world...)

If memory serves me correctly, indentured servants were guaranteed some sort of basics, like shelter, food, and/or pay, in return for their work...contract laborers, if you will, while slaves (in the thinking of the day) were nothing but chattel and anything they were provided was simply because their owner wanted to protect their investment.

I'm not sure where all this fits into umpiring, although I have done some indentured servitude for an assignor or two through the years...

So Newton was serious when he invented the Fig Newton? That explains the "gravity" of the situation... :)

JJ

I remember two particularly enjoyable renditions of the Star-Spangled Banner at the now-extinct Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia:

(1) The Philadelphia Orchestra under Wolfgang Sawallisch (a kid sitting in the row behind me wondered out loud why they didn't smash their instruments when they were finished)

(2) James Earl Jones speaking the words to the music

Several older people have told me that before World War II, the national anthem was played before some MLB games, but not all. During the war, the national anthem was played even before movies.

I like "God Bless America" better, but unfortunately the prologue is always omitted at ball games. Many people would prefer that the national anthem be either "God Bless America" or "America the Beautiful." However the mention of God in both would engender legal battles. Of course, the Star-Spangled Banner does contain the line "and this be our motto: in God is our trust" in a later verse.

In some public schools, any music whose words refer to God cannot be played, even if the words are not sung or spoken. So even the melodies of "God Bless America," "America the Beautiful," and the "Battle Hymn of the Republic" are no-nos.

really sad!
 

The sad part about that is our kids today are missing out on history.

Songs like "America the Beautiful" have so much history behind them etc, and the kids today who aren't allowed to hear those songs (due to some crazy judge somewhere) are missing out.

My favorite though is still the late Ray Charles - he could evermore bring down some America the Beautiful.

Thanks
David