Force or Time Play??

[Dave Davies]

R3, 2 out, R3 stealing on a 3-2 pitch.

R3 scores before ball is swung on and missed for strike 3.

My initial response was 4.09a, run can't score. But, that rule refers specifically to Batter Runner. Other references point to strike 3 NOT caught.

My thought now is that it becomes a Time Play, run scores. I have all the reference manuals and none of them say that the run doesn't score.

You folks wanna straighten me out here? I know that if I go drink a couple of beers, this dilemma will become quite clear.

Dave
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[U_of_I_Blue]

that if I remember correctly, on strike three, the batter automatically is considered a batter-runner. If the third strike is not caught, he's free to try for first. If the third strike is caught, the instant after he becomes a batter-runner he is out. Therefore, runner does not score as batter runner did not obtain first base in this case.

In the old days, a batter used to be able to try for first on any third strike. However, the powers that be realized that very, very few, if any, batters could obtain first on a third strike that had been caught, after the catchers moved to the current position they are now with the advent of the protective gear. So they decided it was simpler to just declare the batter (batter-runner now that the third strike has been called) out if the third strike is caught. I'm pretty sure i'm right on with this post, if I'm not, I'm sure I'll be informed by our resident experts.

[DG]

Originally posted by Dave Davies
R3, 2 out, R3 stealing on a 3-2 pitch.

R3 scores before ball is swung on and missed for strike 3.

My initial response was 4.09a, run can't score. But, that rule refers specifically to Batter Runner. Other references point to strike 3 NOT caught.

My thought now is that it becomes a Time Play, run scores. I have all the reference manuals and none of them say that the run doesn't score.

You folks wanna straighten me out here? I know that if I go drink a couple of beers, this dilemma will become quite clear.

Dave
******

There cannot be a run if a runner has touched (or passed) home base, but there is related action wherein the third out is the batter-runner before touching (or passing) first base, or the batter-runner on an appeal for missing first, or when his batted ball is caught.

Based on this I would say a batter who struck out for the third out has not reached first base before the runner scored.

And R3 is either fearless, mis-directed, or clueless. I vote for misdirected by a stupid clueless coach.

[LDUB]

The batter became a runner, and he was out an instant later.

[DG]

Originally posted by LDUB
The batter became a runner, and he was out an instant later.

A batter who struck out was a runner, for an instant? I'm going to have to sleep on that one.

[U_of_I_Blue]

Originally posted by DG

There cannot be a run if a runner has touched (or passed) home base, but there is related action wherein the third out is the batter-runner before touching (or passing) first base, or the batter-runner on an appeal for missing first, or when his batted ball is caught.

Based on this I would say a batter who struck out for the third out has not reached first base before the runner scored.

DG-

If the batter never became a batter runner, your first portion of the post does not relate to the situation (as you use batter-runner there, but only batter in the second portion). Which is just how the rules are also written. I at least haven't found a refernce referring just to the batter not reaching first base, it's always batter-runner.

The way I look at it, when the third strike happens, the attempt is made a fraction of a second before the pitch is caught. As soon as the batter makes an attempt, he becomes a batter runner. If the pitch is caught, the batter-runner (who an instant ago was the batter) is out an instant after he became a BR.

At any rate, I think we all agree that the run does not score on a strikeout. And to add to your list of things that R3 is: fearless, mis-directed, clueless, out, and one he** of a fast runner.

[Dave Davies]

Ah Hah!! I drank a couple of beers and it came to me in a flash!!

Call Phil!! Phil called me back witht the written interp. Naturally, it came from the CC BRD. 2005 #426

FED: A batter become a batter-runner when he is charged with a 3rd strike. He is out the instant the pitch is caught. Both NCAA and OBR concur.

The coach is a lot dumber then the runner. Thanks for your help.

Dave
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[LDUB]

Originally posted by DG

A batter who struck out was a runner, for an instant? I'm going to have to sleep on that one.

Check out 8-1-b note.

Only the NF shows the exact phrase in their book, but there are interps which echo the NF rule for all rule codes.