Three Man Mechanics:

My partners & I where discussing the benefits of standing opposite the pitchers throwing hand while in the either B or C position while using the Three Man Mechanics. I have always been instructed to set your self in B or C, regardless of the pitcher. The primary benefit that was described to me is that you will lessen your visibility from the batter because you are not standing directly behind the pitcher throwing arm. I am not sure I understand with this benefit and seems to me with runners on second and if you are in the B slot, then making the call at third on a steal (or any other banger) will put in a poor position to make the right call.

What are your thoughts/ or experiences with this?

Thank you


[Edited by EMD on Aug 3rd, 2005 at 11:18 AM]

throwing arm doesn't matter. What matters the batter. If a right handed batter, you should be in B. You have check swing responsibility. With leftie, it is your call, I prefer B because that seems "natural" and I am comfortable there. I am also in better position to handle a call at 1B.

3 man mechanics, as taught today, have nothing to do with the batter or the number of outs.

No runners or R3 only -- A/D
R1 only -- A/deep C
R1+R2 -- A/C
R1+R2+R3 -- A/C
R2 only -- deep B/D
R2+R3 -- deep B/D

To make it simple, anytime there is a runner at first base, the first base umpire is in A.

CCA gives U3 an option of B or C with R1 only.

Sure. I still can't figure out the original post, though.

<i> Originally posted by EMD </i>

<b> Three Man Mechanics:

My partners & I where discussing the benefits of standing opposite the pitchers throwing hand while in the either B or C position while using the Three Man Mechanics. I have always been instructed to set your self in B or C, regardless of the pitcher. The primary benefit that was described to me is that you will lessen your visibility from the batter because you are not standing directly behind the pitcher throwing arm. </b>

IMO, the advent of the METAL bat has a lot to do with whether to stand in "B" or "C". If F1 lost a yard or 2 on his fastball and the batters are starting to pull the ball more I stand Opposite the batter's power alley, meaning if there is a lefty up then position "C" conversely position "B" for a righty.

I have had some close calls with the metal bats. You simply do not have as much time to react when there's a SHOT off a metal bat vs. wood. You are also in a "deeper" position when the particpants use metal as opposed to wood.

In Summary: the PBUC manual and other professional manuals on three person mechanics are based on the participants using wood vs. metal.


Pete Booth

To "jumpmaster" Alan Roper:

In 3-Man, the umpire in position B does NOT have checked swing responsibilities in any case. The umpire on the line, regardless of a righty or lefty, is the one who has that responsibility.

As for being in "B" or "C" on 3-man . . . either of those positions, as well as most other movements and positions, are predicated on balls going to the outfield; not for possible pick-offs or plays at a base. Whenever U2 "goes out", everything reverts to 2-man as far as the bases go anyhow.

The preference for "B" or "C" is indeed dictated by the pitcher. You sure wouldn't want to get nailed by a pick-off attempt with a pitcher turning into you.

Jerry

That really depends on the crew.

To Rich Fronheiser:

With two out, and runners at R2 or R2-R3, the umpire positions should be A/C; not B/D. At higher levels, defensive infielders are taught to automatically make the 3rd out at 1st base. It would also be very unusual for an attempted "sacrifice" or bunt situation with 2-outs. Hence the logic behind putting U3 inside. By using the A/C coverage, your crew is in much better position for outfield and the expected infield play.

Jerry

Luke,
When you say "that depends on the crew", I suppose there are those groups that would want to do things their own way; but I'm not sure why. Unless they always and only work together, they'd each be at a disadvantage when working with two other umpires who go by the written mechanics.

I'm just curious on why one specific crew would "buck the system"? Wouldn't that open you up to criticism by evaluators and/or coaches that know what the proper mechanics should be?

Furthermore, assuming the man/woman in the "B" or "C" position has responsibilities for a balk call (from the waist down) and for the runners on base (for possible interference/obstruction), wouldn't making him responsible for checked swings interfere at least a little bit with those responsibilities?


Jerry

With R2, less than two. How close does U3 satnd to second base when in the C position. I was taught to keep my heals on the dirt and toes in grass +/-10' from second toward thrid.

When I am in this postion it seems uncomfortable. Is there a better position?

EMD,
With less than 2 out and an R2, U3 should be in the "D" position. U2 would be in the "B" position. (Or "C" if he prefers).

In any case, whenever an umpire is in either "B" or "C", it is quite acceptable to have both feet on the infield grass and ready to make a call from the cutout area of the bases.

Jerry

Your right about the position of U2 or U3 and base responsiblities. The point of my question is location in respect to second base while in the C position.

Thanks

Rich,
When you say "as taught today", it depends on what level you work. In college baseball, we use the CCA mechanics which follows what you wrote except with R1 only and a RIGHT handed batter, U3 can work in deep C or deep B. If a left handed batter, U3 must position himself in deep C (because he would have check swing resposibility)

In PRO ball (at least in the Northern League), with R1, we can position ourselves in deep B or deep C because check swing responsibility always goes to the umpire on the line (umpire in the middle never has check swing).

Pro ball 3 man mechancs are situational. For example, if there are two outs, U1 will always be in A regarless of where the runners are on base (ie, R2 & R3, 2 outs - U3 would be in C and U1 is in A). Also, if there are 2 outs and a 3-2 count(where the runner(s) are going on the pitch), the plate umpire will not rotate up to third (he will stay home) and the base umpires will reverse rotate.

CCA mechanics 3 man mechanics are very standardized because umpires are not working with the same guys all year. Pro 3 man has more variations and is more flexible because you work with the same crew all year. Hopefully, I didn't complicate things further.

With a runner on 2nd, isn't the umpire in "C" now in the way of the runner's line of vision with the pitcher when leading off?