Same play, different rulings--MLB

[gsf23]

Had this play happen over the weekend in MLB, once on Saturday, once on Sunday.

R1 at first, batter has a 2-2 count. Next pitch is a ball, batter, thinking it is ball four, takes off for first, R1 starts going to second.

Umpire informs batter that it is only ball 3, catcher meanwhile sees R1 taking off for second and throws down. R1 is caught in rundown and in both plays is tagged out before getting back to first.

On saturday, Daryl WArd of the Pirates is the runner and is called out. On Sunday, Lance Berkman of the Astros is the runner and is put back at first base. Apparently in Sunday's game the umpires had a dead ball when the batter took off for first.

Question. Which is the correct ruling and what is the correct procedure for this situation at the MLB level and at the other levels.

[jumpmaster]

Originally posted by gsf23
Apparently in Sunday's game the umpires had a dead ball when the batter took off for first.

Both rulings are correct...In Saturday's game, the ball was live therefore the runner is liable to be put out. In Sunday's game the ball was dead, therefore no outs can occur.

[Rich Ives]

Both were probably correct. The MLB umpires wouldn't blow that one. They just had "time" for some reason on the second play.

Perhaps the pitch hit the dirt and they were in the process of exchanging baseballs?

[mcrowder]

In the Astro game, that's EXACTLY what happened. I saw it during the game, and it was explained well by the broadcasters (miracle of miracles). They even showed where the plate umpire was asking for the ball, and the BU put his hands up for dead ball. On ESPN, however, they did not show PU's actions, and only showed the rundown, ending with the tag out right next to B1U, who had his hands up. They did an AWFUL job explaining what happened, and only focused on the succeeding ejection of Sandy Alomar Sr.

[mattmets]

ESPN is not about sports anymore it's about the show. Anyone being ejected is going to get them on TV. From what I heard on the radio the play was handled well, this coming from broadcasters who were very critical of the umpires the night before.

[gsf23]

That's why I come on here...to get the real story.

[Sal Giaco]

I'm guessing as to what happened in the Astro game... my read on it was the batter thought the pitch hit him on the foot but the plate umpire wasn't sure if it did or not. The first base umpire, seeing the batter's reaction as he was walking towards first base, raised his hands as if the ball was dead when in fact, the plate umpire didn't make any signal either way. R1, seeing U1 with his hands up, figured the batter got hit so he started jogging towards second base.

I think the umps got together and ruled that the batter was not hit by the pitch, but since U1 killed the ball which put R1 at a disadvantage, they ruled the pitch a ball, brought back the batter and put R1 back on first.

Again, I'm not sure if this is what really happened but I'm just making a guess at it. I think the problem was that U1 prematurely assumed the pitch hit the batter BEFORE the PU actually made that determination. When the pitch was actually ruled a ball (that it did NOT hit the batter), it left U1 looking like he killed a play that he shouldn't have.

[mattmets]

The Astro batter thought the pitch was ball four when it was actually ball three. He left for first, as did R1 for 2nd. Bob Davidson called time to call the batter back to the plate. Seeing Davidson call time, Paul Schrieber, U1, called time as well. Berkman was caught in a rundown, as he and the Mets infielders did not know time had been called. When Willie Randolph was told time had been called and Berkman was still entitled to first base, he went crazy and Sandy Alomar began yelling as well. The main question here is why Davidson called time to allow the batter to return to the plate.

[Sal Giaco]

Thanks for clarifying the situation

[TBBlue]

Mattmets version is the one I heard on the radio this morning. Only the umpires and players know what really happened.

It could be any of the scenarios. The pros change balls automatically when they are in the dirt.

99.9% of the time it is no big deal.

However, when a MLB player pulls a youth ball brainfart, it can cause problems. I'm amazed the players lost the count two days in a row. I can't ever remember seeing that in MLB.

[mattmets]

What shocks me is that Berkman forgot that there were only 3 balls, too.