Trouble Ball

[Robert G]

No one on trouble ball between F8 & F9. I am BU, do I observe the play from the outfield, or from the B position.

[dani]

With no runners on traditional mechanics state BU while on the first base line has the RF straight in, straight back and to the RF line. Advanced mechanics can include the BU going out CF in, back and towards the RF line.

In my opinion, the two most important factors for consideration are...have you reviewed this in your pregame mechanics review with your partner and is your partner WILLING/capable of picking up the batter/runner if you go out.

[Edited by dani on Apr 11th, 2001 at 07:02 PM]

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Robert G
No one on trouble ball between F8 & F9. I am BU, do I observe the play from the outfield, or from the B position.

I sometimes get F7 and F9 mixed up, but if you are talking about the Centerfielder and the Right Fielder, then yes you do with no runners or runners in the B position. Now, with no runners on, you have the option as the BU to go out (discuss this in pregame). If you do go out it is your call all the way. If you come in the PU has the all.

Now when you are in the B position or even the C position, if the play is coming inwards and towards the Centerfielder, usually the BU has the V (V meaning any play from the LF and RF towards the CF usually). This too needs to be discussed in pregame. But even if you decide that the PU has these calls, you need to be looking at the ball in several situations for things like tagups and other considerations of baserunners and where they are as it relates to the ball.

[dani]

Two man mechanics with a runner on base and you are in the cone or working area (B/C or near the mound?) you never go out to the outfield. Crossing the base path is not advised, just work at an angle no further out than the edge of the infield grass.

You work at an angle so to not get straightlined on a potential trapped ball in the outfield. You may have to back in towards the mound if the outfielder is playing shallow and preparing to make a catch attempt near the infield.

If you're going to make the call then it has to be done from the outfield. Go out as far as you can but make sure you get stopped to make the call. If make the cut into the infield the catch is now your partner's problem. You need to watch the touch at first and any other play on the runner.

A lot of guys will say they won't go out unless they have to. Their logic being they don't want to run their PU to death. If you're doing your job right you have to come out to view the catch so what's a few more steps to second.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by dani
Two man mechanics with a runner on base and you are in the cone or working area (B/C or near the mound?) you never go out to the outfield. Crossing the base path is not advised, just work at an angle no further out than the edge of the infield grass.

You work at an angle so to not get straightlined on a potential trapped ball in the outfield. You may have to back in towards the mound if the outfielder is playing shallow and preparing to make a catch attempt near the infield.

You never leave the infield grass. As a matter of fact you might have to back closer to home plate, it just depends on where the ball is going and where the runners are located. But being in those positions to not disqualify you from making catch/no catch calls. But again, this is pregame territory and you have to discuss this with your partner before the game starts so that you do not have two separate calls.

[oregonblue]

In the early years of my career as umpire, I once (ONLY ONCE!) tried to get to the outfield from B or C. Shorten story: baserunner and I collide and I don't see catch/no catch. I get up and immediately look to F9 who is holding the ball in his glove above his head, selling the catch. I call the 3rd out (figuring my partner will have something if I go for help). Coach of offense (Tom Trebelhorn's son, Legion game) comes to me and calmly asks if I saw the play. I stated that he knew I hadn't and would get help if he wanted. (Inviting a s"%thouse.) He declined. Talk about embarrassing!!!

Top it off, when I asked my partner what he saw, he said he wasn't watching. With 2 out and bases loaded. Man, that could have been a massacre. Learned that lesson real well. Never leave the grass from B or C.

From A, I go out to center or right if I have any doubt at all. This is a single sentence part of pre-game. Same for pressure play.

Pat

[Phil Vivenzio]

I think that the original question states that he is in the A position(No one on). If its a trouble ball, he should go out and announce to his partner that he is going out. his partner will then have responsibility for the runner. Remember, once out stay out. And the person who responded that this should be covered in your pre game chat.

Regards
Phil

[PAblue87]

I think what you are looking for is where you are supposed to be. If you cut into the infield than you will be watching the touch of first base. However, on a trouble ball to RightCenter you should go out. Your position will be a good distance away from the play, and with a good angle to see the catch /no catch, that depends on the type of hit. If you do not go out for some reason, then it is the Plateman's ball. Do not make a call if you are in the infield.

[Bfair]

From A position:

If in doubt, GO OUT !!!!!!!!!

I just finished my 41st game of this season (already had about 25 rainouts). During this game I had another situation where the BU decided to come into the infield on a "trouble ball". Consequently, as PU I end up making a catch / no catch call from maybe 200+ feet away on a diver by the right fielder. Partner probably looked real good on his pivot, though. This is the 4th time this year this has happened.

It sure is a lot better to GO OUT from A and be wrong in your decision (play ends up as an easy catch or sure hit) and you force PU into a few extra steps. The reverse, coming to the infield to pivot when the ball ends up being a diver or bobbled then forces the PU into making a tough call from some 200+ feet away.

If I error as BU it will be to force PU into a few extra steps instead of forcing him into calling a diver from the mound. I sure hope my partners read this post. Maybe they will understand the point.

Just my opinion,

Steve

[BJ Moose]

OF course, my "lodge buddy" is correct.

I can't believe there is so much typing over Bob G's orinal post. It looks almost like a "dum" question.. till I remember that, once, I was a newer umpire. And had the SAME question... some of the crusty guys talk about going out on balls ONLY in right field...but crusty is slow.

Bob... GO OUT!! If in doubt.. GO! Experience will bring better Pause Read React.. you'll have less cases of going out when you really don't need to.

But as the PLATE Ump... nothing worse then having to read a catch-no catch of a DIVING OUTFIELDER in Right Field, while Bosco is coming in to pivot.

BTW: This boner ALWAYS costs beer.

Mike B
EWS

[Jim Porter]

Just to add my "me too" to what's already been said:
[list=1][*]Make sure it is truly a trouble ball by reading, pausing, and reacting (as has been said, "When in doubt, go out!") - A trouble ball is:

1. One that causes a fielder to charge toward the line.
2. One that causes an outfielder to charge straight in.
3. One that might be caught while an outfielder charges back.
4. One that might be caught by an outfielder below the belt.
5. One that causes two or more fielders to converge.
6. One that is a potential home run, ground rule double, or off the wall.
7. One that requires a fair or foul decision in the outfield.

[*]Make sure you communicate with your partner. "I've got the ball," and "I've got the line," are appropriate. (Never say, "I'm going out," because that sentence contains the word, "out.")
[*]Be sure to go over this in pre-game with your partner. Otherwise, when you go out, second base might be left uncovered. Make sure your partner understands that when you go out, he's got the batter-runner all the way around to third.
[*]In most areas, after going out, the base umpire is required to rotate down and cover the plate in the unlikely event the batter-runner reaches there. This really looks good to the spectators - like you know what you're doing.
[*]Once you're out, you're out. Never change your mind. Once you decide to go, go. Nothing looks worse than a base umpire trying like heck to get to second, while making a call from behind the play, and possibly a call in conflict with his partner's who busted his behind to cover second for him. Never do that!

[Edited by Jim Porter on Apr 14th, 2001 at 06:53 PM]

[Bfair]

Jim, I will add an exception that is not taught that happened to me once. BU had gone out, the ball fell uncaught, and BR got caught in rundown between first and second.

Well the BU, a rookie, came through and stepped in beautifully on the first base side of the rundown while he was en route back toward the plate. With the play moving away from him he called for his responsibility at first. Let me tell ya, the rook did great and looked good---and I was happy to see him. Weird happening, but he stepped in and made the exception to the rule payoff. Job well done by a rookie (who ultimately moved up quickly).

Steve

[JRutledge]

Personally, I really do not think saying "I've got the ball" is really necessary. I think if the BU turns their back, they are going and should remain out. The PU should already be half way up the line, and if you are doing your job, you just read what the BU does, then react accordingly. You should not be actually looking at the ball, you see what the fielders are doing. Because if anyone is going to catch the ball, it is going to be the fielders. The fielders are going to tell you where the ball is anyway.

I personally think saying "I've got the ball" just interferes with the fielders. They hear you say that, they might think it is one of their teammates and react accordingly. This might not be the popular way to do it, but if you have experience and know what you are looking for anyway, it is not what you say, it is what you do.

Just my two cents.

[Jim Porter]

Originally posted by Bfair
Jim, I will add an exception that is not taught that happened to me once. BU had gone out, the ball fell uncaught, and BR got caught in rundown between first and second.

Well the BU, a rookie, came through and stepped in beautifully on the first base side of the rundown while he was en route back toward the plate. With the play moving away from him he called for his responsibility at first. Let me tell ya, the rook did great and looked good---and I was happy to see him. Weird happening, but he stepped in and made the exception to the rule payoff. Job well done by a rookie (who ultimately moved up quickly).

Steve

That is an excellent addition, Steve. Thanks.