Alright, I had this happen tonight in the AA USSSA 12 year old world series.

The batter is up and I am the PU. He lets 2 beautiful pitches go by that are belt high on the outside corner. After both pitches, he throws his hands up and rolls his eyes and head as if they were terrible calls.

So I say to him in a calm manner, "Batter those balls are strikes buddy, you better swing the bat." The next pitch he swings at a ball 2 feet over his head and strikes out, only to again throw his hands up once more as if it was my mistake. Well, he goes in the dugout and tells about the 4th dugout bench assistant coach (probably his dad), that the umpire was talking to him while he was hitting and that's why he struck out.

So in between innings the guy comes up to me in a calm manner and say, "Blue our player said you were talking to him while he was hitting." So I say, "Well coach, he threw his hands up at me twice and was rolling his eyes and head at me, so I told him that the pitches were strikes and that he better swing the bat."

So the guy points a finger in my face and says, "Don't you ever talk to the batter blue, you do your job. Your job isn't to talk to the batter, don't ever do that again." So I say, "Coach, you don't tell me how to do my job, now go and sit down in the dugout." He says "No, I'm not gonna do it, don't talk to the batters, do your job." I said, "Coach, I'm not gonna tell you again, go sit down, I don't wanna hear another word from you."

He refuses and continues to tell me to do my job, so after warning him for about a 3rd time, I finally say, "You're out of here". So he says naturally, "For WHAT!". So the sherriff behind the back stop says "Lets go coach". And the coach takes a while to leave and I tell him, "Coach, you have 30 seconds to leave this field." He says, "Before what, you kick my a$$?" I said, "No, before your team has to forfeit."

Well, he finally leaves, and of course the team was down 9-0 and ended up getting run-ruled. You might be saying, "Why the heck did Dude post this?"

Well, reason being because I want to hear from you how I handled the situation, what I could or should have done, what your thoughts are on the situation, what you would have done, etc. Feel free to critique me, even if that means calling me a f-ing idiot. Thanks alot

gone, but if you wanted to wait a few seconds you had like 10 more opportunities before you actually dumped him.

Hmmm.
 

Dude:

It appears that you get everything you deserve.

I think you handled this like crap. One don't tell the batter to swing the bat. All you have to say is "those are good pitches" and leave it at that, don't make things worse.

As for the coach and everything he did, it shouldn't matter all that he did........ he is an assistant coach and as soon as he mouthed off, should have been immeadiatly warned then ejected if he kept going. Please explain to me why you would keep an assistant coach around so long. As soon as he opens his mouth warn then eject and you wouldn't have had as many problems.

ANd never ever threaten a forfiet... that is a pus*y way out of a situation. He has to leave, don't take the game out of the player's hands and be the big shot. Just stay out there and let the kids decide the game.

Rob's 2 cents.

I have a hard time telling a player to swing the bat when you have no idea what/where the next pitch will be.

I would have said, "Batter those pitches are strikes." Maybe also "If the same pitch comes, consider swinging the bat," but even that is a stretch.

I agree with above - once the guys plants a finger in your face, he's gone.

When you said, "I don't want to hear another word from you," what if he then said another word, either to you (but was positive), or he stayed and talked to his team, or something else like that. Your comment sounded a bit like an ultimatum. What about, "Coach, I'm not gonna tell you again, go sit down, as this conversation is over."

You allow the 4th coach on the bench to do this? You must allow the manager to slap you durring an arguement.

You should have ejected the guy much earlier, and don't set a time limit for him to get off the field. If it took him 31 sec to get off the field, were you really going to forfeit the game?

I agree, I should have dumped the coach earlier. I was just trying to be more lenient and not the big, bad, power happy umpire that throws everybody out. But all of you are right, It shouldn't have lasted that long. Thanks for the advice about saying "you better swing the bat" as well. I definately should have said something to the kid, but the "you better swing the bat part could have been left out. But even if I didn't say that, there still would have been an argument, as the coach was complaining about me talking to the batter.

Also, about the 30 seconds thing. This is just the way most guys around here handle it when coaches lurk around after being tossed. Sometimes they will refuse to leave, sometimes they continue to argue and would be there all night if you let them, etc. It gets them off the field real quick but I can see why some of you think it is stupid. As for Tim's "Dude you get everything you deserve" post, can you be a little more clear on that. I mean, I expected a smarta$$ comment from you, but can you please explain why I got what I deserved? Thanks alot.

I agree with most of the above replies. Personally I would have ignored him rolling his eyes and such unless he starts questioning my calls verbally or he like looks at me with his eyes the size of baseballs and his chin dropped I will ignore it. And I especially agree with LDUB one thing I tell the people at the meeting i want only the managers to address me if a coach steps out of that dugout without calling time (exception between inngs on his way to or from the coaches box) they are gone right there (I’ve had some problems with teams around here) and if they call time and they want to talk to me I say sit back down and have your mangier come out and talk to me. I feel for one this eliminates the well you told that coach but you didn’t tell me crap; I talk to 1 person from the team and one alone. Also it prevents grandparents, aunts, uncles and, second cousins once removed from coming out and arguing.
However the one thing I don’t agree with is the comment Scallop made. When I started when I was fourteen it was in a summer rec league that had its own set of rules and everything not covered in it went by federation. And in these rules stated that if a player or mangier had 1 minute to leave the park property after being ejected or his team forfeited

dudeinblue,

Are you sure that as an umpire you can forfeit a USSSA tournament game? You did say this was the national tournament right?(World Series)

Saying to a coach or player " one more word and your gone ",
is referred to as the " old bait and hook ", and is very unprofessional. Simply tell the party in question that you are through with this discussion, and walk away. If he follows, then you eject him.

Just as you don't signal to a pitcher where he is missing when you call a pitch a ball, you don't offer information to a batter as to where a pitch was that you called a strike. It's your job to call them, and it's his job to figure out where you are calling them. This is a part of the game.

I'm curious as to where in the country you are calling games in the USSSA world series.

These are sophomorish mistakes, and you will learn to correct them with more experience.

Tim.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As umpires, we are the only ones in the world expected to be perfect on our first day on the job, and improve from there!

[Edited by BigUmp56 on Jul 28th, 2005 at 12:38 AM]

Scallop?? Hahaha Dumbdrum you are a funny man. You obviously have not worked big boyball. In any College or HS level game if you declaired a forfeit over a coach not leaving the field you are as a big of a fuc*ing schmuck as all of your posts lead me to believe. Even in youth ball are you really going to take a game away from kids over one idiot? Go back to your tball games "Charlie".

Not the best thing to say. Dont be so combative, especially if he didnt say anything

That sounds like crying when you say "Well he threw his hands up." When you say he better swing the bat, why do you care? If he takes three looking, is that a problem? And the pointing = an ejection, but Luke pointed out you had sufficient opportunities after this.

You waited way too long. Third warning? They are worthless if you continue to "warn" people.

I remember you giving it to Tee a while back on a previous post about your experience and so forth. That really says a lot after this post. Also, I was saying "Why the heck" way before I got to the end of the post.

mrm, I have always been very clear about my experience. I am a young 21 year old boy who is in his 3rd year of umpiring. If you say this post proves I have no experience, then it's correct. I don't have much experience. Do I need to spell it out for you?

Before you come off as an @sshole did you ever think maybe mrm hasn't read any of your previous posts??

If you read his post, obviously he has. I am not coming off as an @sshole, I was just explaining that I don't have much experience.

"I remember you giving it to Tee a while back on a previous post about your experience and so forth. That really says a lot after this post. Also, I was saying "Why the heck" way before I got to the end of the post."

Gee, I wonder if mrm has read any of my previous posts? Well, I better think about what I say b/c maybe he hasn't.

dumba$$

Yeah, I did write that didn't I. I was trying to defend myself then, and when I said JUCO, it was when I was playing JUCO ball and coach was too cheap to pay umpires so he made the catchers who weren't playing that game do it. We rotated. Sorry bout that. Also, when I said high school, I meant high school aged kids in the summer. Not official high school ball. Yeah, I know, I'm a lying b@$stard, but there is a little bit of truth behind it :-). Sorry bout the miscommunication mrm. I was just new to the forum and somebody was letting me have it so I felt as though I had to defend myself.

Thanks SoCal, its ok.

In a previous post Dude wrote that he previously worked JUCO ball along with a varsity HS schedule. That type of stuff will not fly in a college game Dude.

Attaboy Dude, you show that 12 year old whose wearing the pants on the field.

You mean, "who's wearing the pants on the field", right? I mean, I don't know whose. Didn't you take english comp?

Dude,

I was not saying you were an @sshole, just coming off as one, clearly I misread MRM's post...but the dumba$$ comment directed at me is confusing. I must surely be a dumb *** being that last year, when I was your age might I add, I was a full time college umpire. I will tell you what... if you really want to move up in the ranks, I will explain to you how you need to act, and how you need to carry yourself on and off the field ok?

Rob

How could the dumba$$ comment be confusing? Pretty clear to me. I called you a dumba$$ because you can't read. Now, your post to me seemed like you were being a smarta$$, so I was one back. It's tough to tell when somebody is being sarcastic, a smarta$$, polite, etc. on here. I just depicted your tone as being a smarta$$, so I was one back to you. And by the way, give me another year and I can brag about being a full time college umpire as well. I have been asked by 2 different people within the last month. I'm just unsure b/c I don't want to travel that much. Of course with being a college umpire I will go through training in the fall, and attend a few mandatory camps, so I will not be as big of a dumba$$ as I am now. But SoCal, my philosophy is, if someone is a smarta$$ to you, be one back to them. I thought you were being one, so I was on. My apologies to you since now I know you weren't being one.

Not being a smart *** here, but what training/experience do you have, that with three years of experience you were asked to work college ball?

Thank you for clarifying you were not being a smarta$$. This is a good question. Actually, the assignor that I work for has many guys calling for him that umpire college ball and they have all given me compliments and mentioned my name to the collegiate association. Also, I know some of the guys who are pretty high up there pretty well. And also, my father owns a baseball school and knows everybody associated with baseball in East Tennessee, so this gets me lots of opportunites. The college ball I would be doing would be JUCO, D2, and private schools. Probably mainly JUCO. Trust me, there are idiots umpiring college ball that are much more worse than I am. Hope this answers your question (by the way, I'm not being a smarta$$ either).

I was just curious because here in So Cal to be even a JUCO umpire one needs to slave in HS ball it seems or be a umpire school grad. I was the youngest umpire in my three college assoc. last year, and in all honestly I was only there because of my umpire school training. I was just curious what other parts of the country require for their college umpires.

Rob

So let me understand this. A third year umpire, who admits he has little experience and lied about his resume, is assigned to work a national youth league, USSSA, World Series.

Wow. And I thought Little League was screwed up.

Some times these guys will get whomever they can get to work. Others will use better officials if they can. Others stick with those who have been calling for them all year.
I worked a AAA 13U Super Series national tourney and they used some more experienced higher level blues and some guys who called for him through out the year. The higher level guys were working at one site and the other guys were at another. Every comment about the blues said they prefered the higher level guys (wonder why?). Especially when I get asked about if the batter or runner should be called out on batter interference with the runner stealing second. Bet you can imagine which the little league blue called out.

Garth, I always get assigned working with older guys who have been in the game for a while, so it's not me and some other idiot. Also, I lied about working "real" high school and college ball to a couple of online umpires on a forum...BIG DEAL! How would my assignor know this? You know what, you're not even worth it Garth. Your opinion means nothing to me. I'd rather hear Tim C than you.

Dude,

If you don't mind, I will share some of my limited experience with you. I was able to work college games by my fourth year as an umpire. People thought I did a good job too. This was great for my ego, but the truth is I wasn't totally ready for it. We are all anxious or hungry to move up in the levels but need to be prepared. I suggest perhaps working more at the FED/Legion level to gain more experience (the pitching is a heck of a lot better than Little League) Try to hook up with an experienced and respected umpire who can mentor you.

I've been following your posts and I think you can gain more respect if you follow the advice of others here who have told you to stop with the firing back at every comment. It simply isn't needed.

This is a perfect example of what Tee is talking about on this Forum.

I for one support him in blasting those that don't get, that they don't get it. Because in the long run, they are either going to become better officials or do us a favor and drop out.

So for all you righteous group huggers out there that are still looking to see what is hanging between your legs,

THIS ONE'S FOR YOU!!!!!!

What did you expect Garth? Many experienced umpires either don't want to work "little boy ball" or believe they are "above" working that level of ball. Perhaps if more of these experienced umpires would... ahh, who am I kidding.

As I was skimming this flamefest, I came across this comment and have to ask, what exactly is your suggestion for dealing with an ejected rat who won't leave the field?

I've had high school and college-level training, and associate with a number of veteran umpires, and I think I'm pretty safe in saying the consensus among the umpires I'm familiar with is that standard procedure for an ejected rat who won't leave the field is to tell him he's risking a forfeit for his team.

So please enlighten me - what IS the proper way of handling an ejected participant who refuses to leave the field?

....could LL's less-than-generous payscale be part of the problem? :D

This may apply to my area of the country only, but our umpires get in big trouble if they forfeit a game for any reason other than less than 9 players on the field. Our assignor is adament about this. I once had a coach that would not leave the field so I ejected one player every 30 seconds or so until we got down to 8 players. After every ejection I appointed a new coach and told him to get the head coach off of the field. When he failed to do it, I ejected that player.

Seriously, the best way to handle this is to go stand on the sideline and refuse to restart the game. Eventually, the fans we boo the coach off the field. If the coach comes after you on the sideline and your partner is such a wimp that he will not intervene, go into the other team's dugout , prop your legs up and sip a drink. The coach will not follow you into the other team's dugout and you can camp there all night if you want. I guarantee that within 5 minutes or so, game administration, the fans, or the police will take care of the coach. With cell phones everywhere today, someone will be on the phone to the police.

Peter

Who would let a "4th assistant coach" get this many words in anyway?

I had a play at the plate last night where the 1st base coach AND the manager/3rd base coach start down to the plate. My first words were, "Bill, turn right around and get back in your coach's box and let your manager do his job." He got the hint.

As far as your comments to the batter, I actually have little problem with it as I probably would've read him the riot act after the first time he threw his hands up and ejected him the second time. He lets two strikes go and then swings at a pitch over his head and it's YOUR fault? Please.

Plate meeting: Lineup cards, ground rules, good luck. Anything else is a bunch of verbal masturbation.

Folks,

The little league world series qualifiers are finished in my area and have gone on to the state level. The word is clear.

* ALL LITTLE LEAGUE OFFICIALS ARE VOLUNTEER *

I attended the district championship game and when the LLWS administrator was told we were OHSAA umpires ( there were three of us watching the umpiring AND the game ) he started networking to get us to do LLWS games for him. He said we would need special training and evaluations, etc., but it would be an honor for us to say we were involved. I asked what the pay structure and expenses program were ( because I already knew the answer ), and when he said it was volunteer, I politely responded with, " I know what my services are worth and they are worth quite a bit more than nothing ). We talked about this conversation after he left us and we understood why we were seeing what we were seeing on the field. That may explain why some people get LLWS games and can " brag " about it.


Also, relative to a coach who refuses to leave . . . someone will be dialing the local police for me and the game will not continue until the coach is gone. If players, fans, parents, or opposing coaches do not want to help out in this situation, I will wait until the time limit is up or my patience has worn thin ( which wouldn't take long ). I would do everything in my power to get the game played. I have never had a forfeit yet. Actually, I have never had a coach absolutely refuse to leave.
Hope I never do.

[Edited by officialtony on Jul 28th, 2005 at 10:10 AM]

Ah, Dave, he used "Charlie." That's code for "I went to pro school."

But I can tell him that *I* wouldn't be the one taking the game awaty from the kids, it's the coach that's doing that by his failure to leave.

At the end of the day, forfeit is really the only recourse for somebody who WILL NOT LEAVE. I read Peter's response and that is simply too tiring -- with some teams I'd have to stand there and eject 7-8 players before I could get to 8. What I would do before forfeiting is go to the assistant coaches and tell them that either they remove the coach or I'm going to remove them. Once that's over, there's no adult supervision and the game's forfeited. I may skip that step, if necessary.

Then again, where I live there's no central assignor, so I do what I feel necessary. Of course, I've never forfeited a baseball game, so...

Tony,

Whatever floats your boat. I work LL games and have worked both District and State tournaments as a volunteer. I also serve as a tournament director and assume I will take on other volunteer roles at some point.

For those who wouldn't consider umpiring a game without getting paid, well, I guess Little League (at the higher tournament level, anyway) just isn't for you. But don't assume that you'd be better than all the umpires out there. I had a crew the other night (3-umpire crew) where each member works HS and NCAA baseball. But this time of the year is LL time for all of us. I make enough money officiating the rest of the year.

--Rich

Thanks for the follow-up
 

Rich,
Thanks for the input.
I didn't get the impession that there were many upper level umpires doing anything other than the higest level LLWS games. I did not mean to imply that I was any better than ANY of the umpires doing LLWS ball. My hat is off to them for giving up their time if they choose to. In our area, there weren't a lot of quality umpires working the LLWS games. It must have just worked out that way. No offense intended.
AND . . . I will tell you, I know there are a LOT of umpires that are better than I. My goal is to change that statement over the next few years.
I do not take offense at your reply. On the contrary, I respect your willingness to contribute. I haven't been around long enough to get involved in the trainng involved for LLWS officiating. I am still trying to attend the classes and clinics I need to move up with the state and possibly college levels. There are only so many hours in a day and I am an amateur umpire. I currently aspire to the high school and college ranks.

Thanks again.

That's great Rich. And as, Hensley, I believe it was noted, the LLWS, over the past couple of years, has seen marked improvement in umpire selection and performance.

Other national level tournaments that I am familiar with also go through a selection process and bring in experienced umpires. Even at the state level, American Legion, for example, utilizes the more experienced umpires from various areas of the state. My son, Matt, will be working the Washington State tournament.

When AAU ran one of it's National Tournaments here and hired me to coordinate umpires, I had folks coming in from all over the west to work the games.

I have a hard time understanding how any organization can, at it's national tournament, just grab any ol' local with gear to umpire it's "World Series". Amazing.

.<i> Originally posted by dudeinblue </i>

<b> Alright, I had this happen tonight in the AA USSSA 12 year old world series.

The batter is up and I am the PU. He lets 2 beautiful pitches go by that are belt high on the outside corner. After both pitches, he throws his hands up and rolls his eyes and head as if they were terrible calls. </b>

So what. I do not care what the player is doing as long as he isn't saying something derogatory or drawing lines. Do not say anything to B1 especially at the younger levels because the message as you found out will get mis-guided.

<b> So in between innings the guy comes up to me in a calm manner and say, "Blue our player said you were talking to him while he was hitting." </b>

I do NOT Talk to assistant coaches unless the Head Coach says so and so will be handling all baseball responsibilities. I only talk to the manager

So I say, "Well coach, he threw his hands up at me twice and was rolling his eyes and head at me, so I told him that the pitches were strikes <b> and that he better swing the bat." </b>

Since you made the mistake of talking to an assistant "you dug yourself a deeper hole" by saying his batter should swing the bat. That's like a coach telling you how to umpire.

<b> So the guy points a finger in my face and says, "Don't you ever talk to the batter blue, you do your job. </b>

Since your game management skills were batting zero at this point as soon as the "finger came in my face" is when the talking stops and it's time for the coach to have a nice day. No sense continuing a conversation which can only escalate and get very heated.

Summary: I hope you learned from this experience. Do not COACH players and only talk to the Coach in Charge.

Pete Booth

As someone who has used the phrase, "stop gesturing at me and swing the bat," I think some are being overly sensitive of this phrase. Sounds to me like good advice if he's standing there and looking at strikes and then showing up the umpire.

You don't care if he throws his hands up? Great. Me? It's showing me up and it will stop. And for those rats that say "Don't talk to my players," I'll talk to anyone I wish. I'm the umpire and will do what it takes in the name of game management.

I've been waiting to use the line I got from a mutual friend of ours - "Coach, either you or I are leaving the premises directly. If it's me, then they (pointing to his team) lose."

Ditto!

These guys would really hate one of my favorite lines to deal with a batter making gestures like that. As he walks off after strike 3, I respond "better bring a tennis racket next time."

Or as one of our listmates has said, "It doesn't come with batteries. You have to swing it yourself."

As opposed to LL who scours the whole world looking for the biggest schmucks to call their world series ;)

I have been one of LLWS biggest critics. However, to be fair, they have improved the selection of LLWS umpires over the last two years tremendously.

You have to give credit when it's due.

My, My! Dudeinblue, you sound like a LL umpire who on the one hand wants to be a "though-guy hard a$$ MLB type umpire" and on the other hand are a wimp!

Your biggest problem is you do not have the skills needed for these situations that you write about. You seem to get yourself involved in these games that are above your ability then try to use you mouth before you think. Your comments just get you into more trouble - that's the hard a$$ side. You then become overwhelmed when a coach calls you out - that's the wimp.

Okay, for whatever reason, you've ejected a coach and he won't leave. You simply step back, call your partner and the two of you walk off the field. Say nothing to anyone, just get into your respective cars and meet each other down the road to exchange information to give to your assigner. Do not forfeit the game, do not declare a winner - just leave.

See, now I can't wait to hear the next story you come up with. I'm sure it will end with you leaving the field with the coach yelling at you in the parking lot. You will probably end the story with you crawling under your car.

Simple solution - find another hobby!

Dude-

I'm with diamond gal. Ease up. Take the criticism like a man. Step back and evaluate yourself and see if it's really something you need to work on. If it is, great, then do it. If not, then let it go and move on. There is no need to fire back at everything someone says negatively about you. When you fire back, you just stoop to their level and become one of them. I personally lose more respect for those that fire back at someone than the person who originally fired a statement.
It takes two to start a flamewar and no matter who starts it, you seem to be that second link more often than not. Ease up, have fun, learn to laugh at yourself or you're going to have a long life buddy.

I would probably have to add a 4th P to my repertoire if a coach (especially an assistant) were to come out and point his finger at me, and lecture me at the same time. Holy cow! I've had enough of this....

But then again, I wouldn't be telling batters to swing the bat either. I just call 'em and if they are smart...

U of I,

I don't think it's fair to expect anyone to not try and defend theselves when they are the first one that has incurred a personal assault by a member of this board.

I have seen dudeinblue called an idiot, a pu$$y, an a$$hole, and a moron amongst other things. I wonder if the individuals that initiate the name calling with him in this forum would actually speak to him, or anyone else for that matter, in the same way face to face.

I doubt it!

Where I come from those are fighting words.

Do you really think some of these guys give a post game critique using this language? If they did pull that kind of garbage in person, they would have a fight on their hands I'm sure. Some might say buck up and take it like a man.
I'd say if you turn the other cheek, expect to get hit harder!

Tim.

just like the old days of "i kicked him because he kicked me" with my younger brothers

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/xbriancurtinx/seriousbusiness.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

Good advice. I'm definately going to try this. You've inspired me (I say this totally non-sarcastically). But if you think less of the person who fires back, then you must not think well of Tim C, and most of the others on here.

If any administrator of this forum had a pair, they'd eject this moron now.

Now that's what I'm talkin bout. You tha man BigUmp. I guarantee ya I could kick over half the people's a$$ if they said some of these things to me in person (as long as they didn't have a weapon and just their fists), as a matter of fact, I'd say 95%. These old timers would have a heart attack!

Well well, more name calling. I wonder what you would tell somebody who told you "simple solution: get a new hobby", or told you that you would hide from a coach under a car. By the way, I'm hurt by the moron statement, OUCH!

So I say to him in a calm manner, "Batter those balls are strikes buddy, you better swing the bat."

Was the batter's name really buddy?


So the guy points a finger in my face and says, "Don't you ever talk to the batter blue, you do your job. Your job isn't to talk to the batter, don't ever do that again." So I say, "Coach, you don't tell me how to do my job, now go and sit down in the dugout." He says "No, I'm not gonna do it, don't talk to the batters, do your job." I said, "Coach, I'm not gonna tell you again, go sit down, I don't wanna hear another word from you."

Well.at least you didn't tell him to sit down AND shut up.



Feel free to critique me, even if that means calling me a f-ing idiot. Thanks alot


Guess you didn't really mean that after all,huh?

vocabulary....
 

Dude, here is some experience for you...

When I was a young army officer I had a extremely foul mouth. I used four letter words extensively and could weave quite the tale while doing so. After one of my more colorful displays, I was called out in front of 150 of my peers by a much higher ranking officer. His comment to me...

"those that feel the need to use four-letter words do so because they are too stupid to have developed a vocabulary. There is a time and place for cursing and it is not every other word..."

You should pay attention to those words. I did and people take me serious more often these days...

Oh, and by the way, saying you have the ability to "kick someone's a$$" is often a cover up for one of two things:
1) a man who is extremely insecure
2) a man who is too stupid to participate in educated, thoughtful debate

Dude,

Do you believe in yourself? That's all that matters, correct? Keep on taking the steps that contribute to your umpiring in a positive way. Learn from the negative things whenever possible. Again I strongly urge you to not get sucked in when things are hitting a nerve with you.
You are young and have many years ahead to continue growing as an umpire.

Just remember that you know the truth about yourself and your umpiring. Hang on to that.

My previous post titled "3rd to Home" raised some interesting feedback. I didn't need to defend myself in anything that was pointed out. Why? I was the one there. I know how things went. The situation went very well, but I still learned from some of what the posters were calling attention to. Actually helped me out in my next game.

Hope something here helps.

You've admitted your lack of experience. You've admitted to being a liar. And now you've proven yourself to be vulgar, tasteless and probably beyond help. You are a punk. And that's not name calling, that's a verifiable fact.

You won't have to worry about reading any more posts from me addressed to you. There won't be any.

This forum has indeed dropped to the level of McGriffs. And apparently that is what the owners desire. Never has anyone stooped to the crass level you have brought us to. Congratulations.

I think Dude really needs to go to pro school. Maybe then he will 1. get a clue to what a good umpire is and 2. an idea of how to be a man instead of an angry foul mouth punk.

You put out the invite to be ripped on with your original post then you subvert into childish name calling when you were. Tee's post was simple in him saying you got what you deserved. Ok it is obvious that you missed his point. Most of the rest of us did because we have been there and gotten what we deserved. Did it even stir some brain activity that he is probably like most of us in that we feel giving you advise is about the same as smashing our own faces into a wall? People give you good advise and you crap on them with your childish tirades.

By the way posts about being able to whip other people's a$$es and that the old men would have a heart attack, mighty brave, mighty respectable, mighty mature especially hiding behind your keyboard. What's next? My daddy can beat up your daddy?

And this is in responce to what people said in Tee's class thread.

Jim Hooko
Tulsa, OK

come see me! We'll call a game.

Under normal circumstances I would agree with you on this.


Maybe you haven't read much from this guy. He is one of those who doesn't want to hear the truth. Good people tried to help him in the past and all he can do is call them smarta$$es and continue to whine. He wants us to all tell him that he is right and that's about it.

Mark my words, where I come from, I would be saying the same thing to his face - nose to nose!

You should hear some of our post games - they get quite comical and personal! But we are all big boys and we take it in stride. I may say to my partner "What a pu$$y you were to that coach" and he may say "So what! that call at 2nd base was the worst I've seen.". We would then have a good laugh and get a bite to eat. The people that I deal with are hardened thick heads with tough skins. You can't be a sissy in this area and expect to keep umpiring.

But seriously, we have tried to help this person but he doesn't want to hear it. Even during my rant, I gave him advise and he didn't even note it. I'm done with this person, BigUmp56.

This is getting really old. Like most people on here, I come here to learn and have a little fun once in a while. However, the forum is turning into Eddie Murphy stand up - not good.

Two seasons ago I worked a JV basketball game, whenever the game was over a very well respected official was in our locker room chatting with us. He ended by saying: "now, these are just a few things that will help you become a better official, if you don't agree, whenever I walk out the of room, you can simply say f**k that old man and I will have no problem with it."

I have certainly learned a lot from this forum. There have been a lot of things I agreed with and some that I haven't agreed with. Either way, I always try and thank whoever offered their opinion. If I liked their advice, I remember it for future reference. If I didn't agree with their advice, I simply disregard it. Just because I don't agree with their advice or opinion doesn't grant me the right to call them "homos" or anything else.

Like evaluators, most people on here you have never met. Evaluators are going to offer strong analysis and opinions about your game – much like people on here. I certainly would hope that you wouldn’t tell an evaluator they were a smarta**, homo, or any other vulgar comments that you have directed towards some of the other posters just because you didn’t agree.

Just my opinion, I could be looking at this entirely at the wrong angle.

Edit: I'm also done with this thread.

[Edited by tjones1 on Jul 29th, 2005 at 05:11 PM]

Dude - first I want to ignore the banter between post one and the rest of the posts to this point, and actually answer your question.

You ask us how you could have handled this better.

1 - I would not have said a word to the batter... but I wasn't there. If you absolutely HAD to prove to this 12 year old that you were the bigger man, at least confine your comments to facts, and not advice. "Swing the bat" is DEFINITELY coaching, and you've given the coach every reason to tell you to do YOUR job and let him do HIS. Perhaps "Those are strikes, son," would be better... or if the eye-rolling is what you wanted to stop, perhaps just, "Most umpires would toss you for that eye-rolling. You might want to not do that anymore."

2 - the coach. If this was the manager, you gave him too much leeway. This being the @$$istant coach, you gave him way way way way way too much leeway. An @$$istant coach deserves, AT BEST (and only when being ENTIRELY civil) a very short explanation of a situation, and then "Coach, we're done - if your team really needs to discuss this more, it needs to come from your manager." In this case (where he was NOT being civil), he should have been gone much much much earlier. Change him to the manager, and he gets tossed at the finger pointing.

On the other hand, you DID screw up by coaching the kid, and that was the coach's beef. So, if this was the manager, he might deserve a "Coach - you're right. I won't coach your kids. Now lets play ball." (again... only if he came out very civilly).

Now - on to the banter. Honestly, you need to back it down about 5 notches. You came here SPECIFICALLY asking for other umpires' input on your actions, and then proceed to blast every single person (with maybe 2 exceptions throughout the entire thread) who gave you input on your actions.

So, knowing your attitude from previous posts, can you at least maybe see why you get blistered so much when you post idiotic comments, or why you got called on the carpet for the lies (which were obvious based solely on YOUR OWN posts).

Show some deference to your superiors (includes ALMOST everyone here - maybe not dumbdrum) and you'll find you will learn a lot more and might actually BE one of those superiors in 5 years or so.

Will do Crowder. Thank you for the advice.

Geez -- I take one day off, and look at what happens. ;)

The most offensive posts have been removed. Dudeinblue has been asked to refrain from making any similar posts.