Is this a legal motion. For example: right handed pitcher. Starts with pivot foot on rubber and non pivot foot behind the rubber. Instead of stepping or transferring his weight back to his non pivot foot he takes a step with his left foot first placing it in front of the rubber slightly followed by placing his pivot foot in front of and against the rubber in the proper position. The rule book states Duing delivery, he may lift his non-pivot foot in a step forward, or in a step backward and a step forward, but he shall not otherwise lift either foot. I take this to mean he may step back and then forward but not forward with his non-pivot foot and then forward. What is your opinion?

Coach,
Sounds to me that the pitcher took a signal, and then set up in a stretch without a pause.
I have the same interp as you... an illegal delivery.
And yes, I believe the pitcher <u>may not step forward twice</u>.
mick

<I>Disclaimer: I just got off the hardcourt and haven't looked at my equipment yet.</I> :o

If I understand the explanation it sounds like a tight wind-up motion. If he starts with his right foot on the rubber and his left behind it, he can then step forward with his non-pivot foot. Then he can turn his right foot and place it in front of the rubber and continue his wind-up. It is accepted practice for the pitcher to lift his pivot foot and place it either on top or in front of the rubber. Although technically illegal, it has been determined not to call it.

<b>JEA:</b>

"Pitchers are not penalized for breaking contact with the rubber with their pivot foot if it is slight and considered to give the pitcher no advantage. This is often a necessary part of the pitcher's positioning his body to deliver the pitch. It is usually necessary to lift the pivot foot in order to turn the body into a power-generating position. This turning of the foot 90 degrees is known as the pivot (thus the pivot foot)."

more info, please
 

Coach,
The pitcher:
Stepped left.
Pivoted Right.
Then what did he do? Pause at stretch or just go to the delivery? Walk off the field? :)
mick

The pitcher is in the wind-up position. He starts his motion toward the plate with a step forward with his left foot going forward just in front of the rubber. The second move he does is place his right foot in front of the rbber in the normal position. He then lifts his stride leg in the normal manner. My question is: is it legal to step forward twice, once with his non pivot foot and then with his pivot foot. Most pitcher's step either sideways along the rubber or back with their non pivot foot before placing te pivot foot down in front of the rubber. I am seeing this more and more due to pitching coaches wanting the least amount of movement from their pitchers.

Balk
 

Coach,
The player stepped toward home without delivering a pitch.
That's a non-no.

By the way, about which level of ball are you writing?
mick

The pitcher has attained no advantage.

There is nothing to call, unless someone wants to split hairs, and then there can be tons of violations to call.

No call. Anything else isn't really baseball.

Brent

This is high school baseball. I have had one umpire tell me this is illegal and others say its o.k. I just want to know the true answer. To me it's not legal because you could say he was moving from the wind-up position to the stretch position without first taking his pivot foot off the rubber.

Brent,
Why would we practice, coach or allow such a double-step?
Is that a traditionally accepted practice?
mick

Anybody watch Rob Nen pitch for SF last night. Stretch position, comes set, on his delivery home he steps with the left foot sets it down , picks it up again and continues to home. So we have set, tap, continuation. What do we call this??

Thane,
I have nothing because no body weight is put on that tap.
If there was weight, I think he would fall on his nose.
mick

Why don't we look at the rulebook, gentlemen?
 

This in and of itself is not a reason to avoid calling a balk/illegal pitch.

What I gather is this: Pitcher in windup with free foot behind rubber. He steps forward with FREE foot, planting it in front of rubber. He pivots the pivot foot normally, then steps forward again with the free foot and pitches.

The pitcher, with his free foot, may: step once forward or step once backward then once forward with the free foot in his pitching motion. <b>He shall not otherwise lift either foot</b> (FED 6-1-2). (Obviously we are going to ignore a slight lift of the pivot foot in its pivot.)

Thus, for FED in the situation originally presented, this is a balk/illegal pitch (6-1 PEN).

You cannot simply say the above when you don't want to enforce a specific rule. There are cases where we want to deviate from the strict letter of the law. This isn't one of them.

P-Sz

We are not ML umps, so we just complain and moan about it. I'll check it out next time I watch a Giants game.

P-Sz

Re: Why don't we look at the rulebook, gentlemen?
 

Do you call a balk on every pitcher who steps to the side during his windup?

As I read the post (and I might be reading it wrong), this particular pitcher had just exaggerated the sideways step so it's now a forward step. He probably should be taught differently, but I wouldn't call it a balk in my game.

Re: Re: Why don't we look at the rulebook, gentlemen?
 

I understand your point, and this is one of the biggest areas of confusion/poor pitching mechanics that I hate. Let's put it this way:

I allow a side step in the wind-up, but not a forward step. They are both illegal by the rule book. Simply put, a side step is far too common to call. Several major league pitchers even do it.

But a forward step? No way. This motion, in one way, is the pitcher going from the windup to the set during his delivery, and is just so wrong and awkward that I cannot in good conscience allow it.

P-Sz

Re: Re: Why don't we look at the rulebook, gentlemen?
 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob jenkins
[B]Just out of curiosity, does Fed 6-1-2 apply to a stretch postion? I have seen this kind of weird foot movement in a stretch position. For example, is it legal, in a stretch position, for a pitcher to move foward with his front foot, then forward again, then backwards before coming set?

Re: Re: Re: Why don't we look at the rulebook, gentlemen?
 

6-1-2 deals only with the windup. 6-1-3 deals with the set. The move you describe is legal, if it is all done during the stretch and before the stop. 6.1.3G

Brent and Bob are answering the question with realistic, practical, and survivable answers. Yes, the practice is customary to allow it for those who prefer to adjust their pivot foot in this manner.

As Brent said, it is splitting hairs to call a balk on this no different than it is splitting hairs in Fed to call a balk if the non-pivot foot goes sideways vs. backwards.

<i>NOTE: OBR has specific reason why non-pivot foot should not go sideways. OBR allows pickoff move to 1st & 3rd while on rubber in windup position. Stepping sideways is, in fact, a step to a base. This is not a concern in Fed as F1 can only disengage backwards with pivot foot or he can pitch.</i>

If you are in question here, your ultimate decision should be based upon whether you feel the action is deceiving to the runner causing the pitcher to gain an advantage. If you look to split this hair, you'll also find many others that can destine you to JV ball.

Just my opinion,

Steve

<< Is this a legal motion. For example: right handed pitcher. Starts with pivot foot on rubber and non pivot foot behind the rubber. Instead of stepping or transferring his weight back to his non pivot foot he takes a step with his left foot first placing it in front of the rubber slightly followed by placing his pivot foot in front of and against the rubber in the proper position. >>

Coach I am going to guess there was runner(s) on base? If so the High School Federation Rulebook is very clear on that a pitcher who has his free foot entirely behind the backside of the pitchers rubber has no choice but to go home on his first movement. This is a balk ! A mechanical one at that.

To me an experienced umpire would see what is happening before the balk actually happens, like maybe in the warm ups before the game starts for each pitcher and (A.) make sure you either tell the pitcher you hope that is a move he does only for warm ups or alert the Coach of the mechanical balk and let him deal with it or (B.) what I do ( and I know I will take heat for this) I will call time when I see this starting to happen and ask for the ball from the pitcher and pretend to inspect the ball and tell the pitcher what he is about to do wrong and correct it before he pitches to the batter. Call it preventive umpiring 101.

Now before everyone gets all excited about this... I only do this in the first games of the season, especially if its a new rule in the Federation rulebook.

You have to remember that a balk is an action by the pitcher to decieve the runner or gain an advantage. So... what is the call? Has he gained an advantage? Did the runner dive back to the base or is this pitcher poorly coached or instructed at this level? This to me is where you must use your judgement.

On the other hand, after the season starts I will call it and know JUST as soon as I do balk the pitcher, expect the coach to come out and then have to explain the rule to the coach so he may instruct the pitcher on how to properly "mount" the rubber with runners on base.

I will also tell you all that after I have called time and informed the pitcher what he is about to do is incorrect and then put the ball live. In between innings, I will tell the pitchers coach what his pitcher was doing incorrectly and put him on notice that no more freebies.... get it straightened out before the pitcher returns to the mound.

Your mileage may vary !
Ax