Out in the wilderness

[NSump]

This is where Rollie was with his gem today, "Let Mikey try it, or A New Mechanic?"

I have never read such drivel. The pendulum has certainly begun to swing too far when some guys are advocating changing a partner's call based on what he saw.

Bu calls a guy out at 1st and Mr. Wilderbeast is advocating rushing in to change it. Advocates intercepting the coahc to protect BU.

In a word, insanity. Another, trouble. Another, ejections.

I haven't writen for a while, but I had to refute this very poor piece of advice. Hopefully Carl will post it Monday. I would hate to see some young ump try this insanity.

Sh!t, if PU is calling them at first, why not BU just call balls/strikes from first?

Here is good advice. Get your a$$ into position and make the call. If you are PU and THINK you saw it differently, keep your mouth shut. Your partner will come to you if he needs/wants help.

Blaine

[ecurebel]

it is one thing for a coach to ask the person who made the call for assistance if the umpire deams that by asking for assistance he can get the call right.

i do not advocate asking for assistance on alot of calls because i can see what happened and i made the call the way i saw it.

there are just those times that you think you make the best call, but by the response of everyone there in the ball park it seems wrong then man up and ask for help from the partner, you can always stick with your call or change it.


if ever the partner desires to change your call or tell you that you might want to ask for help then your partner needs to realize his place and be quiet. because if i chose to ask for assistance it is purely a play i saw and know there will be no change to the call but its appeasement to allow the coach to know that you are listening to his arguement. appeasement only comes around once in a blue moon and the situation that it is used is at my discretion not the partners. (if it is my call)

[NSump]

Originally posted by ecurebel


if ever the partner desires to change your call or tell you that you might want to ask for help then your partner needs to realize his place and be quiet.

Well said

[ecurebel]

its not that we need or really want help on some calls, it just looks better if as a team the partner and i get together sometimes on something that is being questioned.

it is not mandatory or really needed at some instances in the ball game, but by communicating a tough play that could of gone either way it is good to ask for help.


say you have a banger at first and there is a pulled foot question while you are in the b or c, it seems to be better if you go ahead and ask for the pulled foot if you are sure he is out if the foot was there. this will release some preasure from either umpire if the coaches see that you are communicating to get the calls right


when i first started out umpiring i was working with this newer guy too, and made a call at third and this dip tried to change my call without even asking for help. i saw the call and made the call, lets just say that the booking agent was not to happy to find out that this guy was an idiot and did that

[Edited by ecurebel on Jul 8th, 2005 at 05:23 PM]

[LDUB]

Originally posted by NSump
I have never read such drivel.

I guess you have never read any of Wiederlancers other articles.

[Rich]

Originally posted by ecurebel
its not that we need or really want help on some calls, it just looks better if as a team the partner and i get together sometimes on something that is being questioned.

it is not mandatory or really needed at some instances in the ball game, but by communicating a tough play that could of gone either way it is good to ask for help.


say you have a banger at first and there is a pulled foot question while you are in the b or c, it seems to be better if you go ahead and ask for the pulled foot if you are sure he is out if the foot was there. this will release some preasure from either umpire if the coaches see that you are communicating to get the calls right


when i first started out umpiring i was working with this newer guy too, and made a call at third and this dip tried to change my call without even asking for help. i saw the call and made the call, lets just say that the booking agent was not to happy to find out that this guy was an idiot and did that

[Edited by ecurebel on Jul 8th, 2005 at 05:23 PM]

Let's just say that if I work hard to get in position on a play and see the play clearly it would be a cold day in hell before I'd ask for help on a pulled foot, swipe tag, or other such squirrels.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by ecurebel
its not that we need or really want help on some calls, it just looks better if as a team the partner and i get together sometimes on something that is being questioned.

Your statement is the perfect introduction to a reposting of a soapbox speech I made just a day or two ago on a private list. Here's the cut 'n paste:

Getting it right, run amock!

Witnessed at a senior league tournament game recently:

R1, R3. Pitcher comes set, then twirls and feints to 2B. PU comes out hollering "that's a balk!" and advances R3 and R1. Not a peep of protest or questioning from the defensive coach.

PU is getting set for the next pitch, then all of a sudden he calls time, and walks out to confer with his partner in C position. They stand out there and talk for 2 or 3 minutes, then PU turns around and waves the runners back to their original bases. He has, apparently, been persuaded by his partner that the balk call he just made was incorrect.

NOW here comes the offensive coach, wanting an explanation for the reversal. It doesn't help that he (the rat) is pretty rules-savvy, and he knows the original balk call was the right call. He's getting exercised, PU is getting frazzled, and all of a sudden, PU turns to yours truly, who is just sitting in the stands minding his own business flirting with some REALLY knockout little teeny-boppers, and he motions me over to the fence. What can I say, my real-world reputation is just as stellar as my Internet umpire expertise, and people ask me rules questions all the time. Not usually in the middle of a playoff game like this, but what the hell. I approach the fence, PU tells me what he had and why, and I ask one question - did you judge that R1 was NOT attempting to steal 2B - and he answers affirmatively, and I tell him "I agree with your call."

So he now puts the runners back to their awarded bases, has a short conversation with the defensive coach, and life goes on.

After the game, I visited with the crew, because I wanted to know, why the HECK did PU call a conference with his partner, AFTER he had made the balk call and when NOBODY was questioning or arguing the call? His response - "well, I just wanted to get it right."

We have created a monster with this "getting it right" mantra. It hadn't dawned on him that what it looked like to most of the spectators and participants was he made a call, was unsure of it, dragged his partner into the mess, decided to reverse the call, got argued with, and then pulled a DAD OUT OF THE STANDS to discuss it with, and then changed the call back. His desire to get the call right - in a complete absence of questioning or disagreement by any coach - ended up throwing himself and his partner WAY under the bus.

All things in moderation, folks. The "get it right" mantra must be observed with reason and balance, and without abandoning our primary responsibilities as umpires - to maintain order and discipline on the field and administer the rules in the spirit and intent (and not always the letter) in which they were written. Questionable calls are a part of the game and both teams have to live with the risk of umpire error and the finite limits of our knowledge and training. When coaches plead with you to "get help" on a call, they are NOT asking you to "get it right;" they are asking you to find a way to rule in their favor. If you were the calling ump and you were in position to make the call, then the proper response to an "appeal" request is "No, Coach, that's my call, I saw the play and made the call. Let's play ball." That's not putting umpire's ego ahead of getting it right - it's knowing what your job is as an umpire and doing it.

[DG]

I was BU last week in a legion game when a throw from SS to 1B was up the foul line, to the right field side of 1b. The RH 1b man had is right foot almost on the line as he made the scoop on a banger and I banged the runner. 1B coach hollers "he was off the bag", I say "no he wasn't and turn toward RCF (it was the 3rd out). Well, along comes the head coach to discuss the call, he wants me to get help from the plate ump, I say "no way, I saw the toe against the bag when the catch was made". He says "you are sure", and I say "100%". He says "well could at least ask him". I say "I don't have to, and besides, he can't possibly have a better view, since he is 90 feet away and the play was on the right field side of the bag". After a little more discussion about getting help he finally left.

This asking your partner for help stuff can get out of hand if you let it. I saw one of those NCAA rules videos recently where a PU followed the runner up the line, and BU called the runner SAFE on a swipe tag that was clearly OUT. The PU kept running up the line and went directly to the BU and began discussing, with the offensive coach coming right behind him. The way the PU ran up the BU I think if I were the BU I would have tossed him, had he been a coach, especially an assistant. Poorly done I thought. I think if I were PU I would have stopped, looked directly at the BU and, not said a word, and then start backing up toward the plate. The offensive coach was coming and the BU would have eventually asked me what I saw.

[Edited by DG on Jul 8th, 2005 at 08:39 PM]

[NSump]

Originally posted by DG
Poorly done I thought. I think if I were PU I would have stopped, looked directly at the BU and, not said a word, and then start backing up toward the plate. The offensive coach was coming and the BU would have eventually asked me what I saw.

[Edited by DG on Jul 8th, 2005 at 08:39 PM]

Yeah!!!

[umpduck11]

OMG.... does he truly believe that this
is the proper way to handle a supposed
missed call? I do believe that was the last
article by Roland that I shall read.

[umpyre007]

Originally posted by umpduck11

OMG.... does he truly believe that this
is the proper way to handle a supposed
missed call? I do believe that was the last
article by Roland that I shall read.

Makes ME very glad I haven't paid good money for the articles area.

[umpduck11]

Makes me wonder why I have......

[DG]

I used to pay for comic books. Roland is sometimes comical also, so the entertainment value is the same. And anyone can send in a rebuttal, and probably get paid for it.