Runner

[tommyleo]

With two out, R1 and R2 are only 20 feet apart and both are heading to third. The third-base coach sends R2 home -- and R1 runs through the coach's stop sign. There's a play on R2, who avoids the catcher's tag AND misses homeplate, too. The catcher, realizing that R2 hadn't touched homeplate, chases after R2 who is trying to find a way back to touch homeplate safely. R1 steps on homeplate before the catcher can tag R2 for the third out of the inning.

Since R2 hadn't yet touched home when R1 did, is R1 called out for passing R2? That would be the third out and no runs would count.

Alternatively, what if R2, after R1 crossed the plate, avoided the catcher and was able to scoot back safely to the plate? That ruling there seems obvious: R1 would have to be called out since he stepped on the plate before R2 did -- hence, R1 would have "passed" R2.

[Rich Ives]

Failure to touch a base does NOT create a "passed runner" situation. The trail runner would have to physically pass the leading runner to be out.


The run would not score.

4.09(a) EXCEPTION A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made 3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

[SAump]

I am still trying to understand what actually happened. You did not state that R1 passed R2 on the based path. So literally, the runners never passed each other. However from your description, I believe you. Maybe they did pass each other somewhere; perhaps as soon as R1 touched the plate, or perhaps R1 passed as R2 was on his way back to the plate. Then you provide additional information that should, by rule, not change the outcome. Surprisingly, from what I could determine, I think you were technically correct in both cases. The third out was made at the plate, but does the run count in one play and not the other? Nope! See Rule 7.12 below.

What if R1 realizes what is happening before he touches the plate, or after he retouches home plate and returns to 3B and while the play between R2 and the defense at home plate comes to a conclusion? I am only trying to describe all the possible scenarios on this play. Technically, I'm inclined to end it before all action comes to a complete stop and weird things (like a fight) break out. With less than 2 outs, the ball is live and the possibility of at least one run exits.

Rule 7.12: Unless two are out, the status of a following runner is not affected by a preceding runner’s failure to touch or retouch a base. If upon appeal, the preceding runner is the third out, no runners following the preceding runner shall score. If such third out is the result of a force play, neither preceding nor following runners shall score.

[Rich Ives]

There's no passing after home plate.

[jicecone]

Technically, if R2 went home for dinner before R1 carried his lunch and what if R4 watched this all live, on cable delayed TV, then and only the could we declare a forfeit.

Now if the fans cheered loud enough and the umpire appreciated it , and what if it was Friday. Then the fight would be declared a draw and all runners would have to "Go To JAIL", "Not Pass Go" and NOT, Collect $200.00.

Is This Sleazyteam ?

[DG]

Originally posted by jicecone
Is This Sleazyteam ?

This appears to be a perfectly legitimate playing situation that an official would have to rule on, so why the wize cracks?

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
Failure to touch a base does NOT create a "passed runner" situation. The trail runner would have to physically pass the leading runner to be out.


The run would not score.

4.09(a) EXCEPTION A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made 3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

This answers the question if the preceding runner is the third out. What if the following runner touches the plate and the preceding runner THEN safely makes it back to the plate, do both runs count even though the plate was touched out of order?

[SAump]

I still stand by my remarks, just as appropriate as any other on this website. I provided an alternative scenario to the original thread and a different rule interpretation and a justification for it and I also hope that you found a little humor in it and I'm not sick and I am tired.

I already know it is the SAME RULE at or after, and not before home plate (HAHAHAHA). I thought I gave a damn good explanation of passing after home plate. How can you say that there isn't? Those runners are always passing by me and the catcher when I am the PU. If your an umpire, YOU should also see it happening all the time. Somehow that must of got lost in the educated delivery.

I ALSO believe a senior member is babbling. I can't understand him but someone close should TELL him, take your meds and get home quickly. Rest and tell your head coach (psych) what happened. I will leave you be. I will not reply to any more of your comments about this thread. Come back when your better and bring the plate gear? It is July and there is still a lot of baeball left!

Please stick to the topic. If someone has a problem with my remarks, fine, I have thick skin, oh well, shut up and play ball. I will not get into a contest over rule 4.09 versus 7.12. Those points have already been made. If my explanation conflicts with any baseball rule, I would be more than happy to read your wiffle-ball interpretation.

UMPIRES SHOULD ALWAYS PLAY FAIR!

[SAump]

I TOLD YOU! RULE 7.12

Why do you QUOTE 4.09?

Are you confused by Mr. CLEAN?

[Matthew F]

Originally posted by w_sohl

This answers the question if the preceding runner is the third out. What if the following runner touches the plate and the preceding runner THEN safely makes it back to the plate, do both runs count even though the plate was touched out of order?

Both runs would count unless an appeal was made on the preceding runner. This would be the same whether the preceding runner returned to touch home plate or not.

7.10 AR(1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored.

[w_sohl]

Originally posted by Matthew F
Both runs would count unless an appeal was made on the preceding runner. This would be the same whether the preceding runner returned to touch home plate or not.

7.10 AR(1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored.

Thank you. Clearly explains my question, runs would count until a prper appeal would be made and then no runs would be scored assuming two outs.

[SAump]

TWO RUNS SCORE? Wow, A roundtripper! An inside the thread homerun! I never even saw that going. I guess I didn't know the age group, the score, or the inning.

All the possibilities have been exhausted. Lets see, I have 2 runs. Where is that batter-runner that PASSED me?
I have 1 out and 1 run, no VERBAL appeal necessary, I will not allow R2 to score because of what rule? I have 1 out and NO runs score. How many outs were there to begin with? Ask your little buddy for a hug/shake if you get the two answers right.

I am sure I missed something else. Umps, do you know why I will refuse to rule on the VERBAL appeal? Scorekeepers, don't allow that third run on R2 for the offense and remove the fourth out on R1 for the defense. That was one sitch that I really didn't miss explainin much. But now I have to go. Actually I just want to get to my car and leave this game thread alone, May it rest in peace ASAP.

I really don't think that they know the rules.

[largeone59]

Originally posted by Matthew F

Both runs would count unless an appeal was made on the preceding runner. This would be the same whether the preceding runner returned to touch home plate or not.

7.10 AR(1) No runner may return to touch a missed base after a following runner has scored.

That's right.

In this case, if R2 is tagged out before he gets back to home, that IS considered a proper appeal. Disallow R1's score. Had R2 made it back safely, then you would have to properly appeal if R1 scored before he did.

[SAump]

Some of my comments sound like they may conflict with your rules. Now I never considered the fact that a team would allow two runs to score and not ask for an appeal. Now I know what you mean. I guess I wasn't explicit enough, "NO RUNS SCORE because there is going to be an APPEAL!"

[Rich Ives]

"NO RUNS SCORE because there is going to be an APPEAL!"



No runs score IF, AND ONLY IF there is an appeal.