Sandbagging in USSSA and other sanctioning bodies

[TwoBits]

Not an umpiring question, but I think it's still worth mentioning.

Here in my area, we are seeing a drop in teams playing in the AAA and Major divisions of USSSA baseball. At the same time, we are seeing a growth in the number of teams playing AA.

For example:

1) The complex for which I umpire most my games in any given season sponsors two wood bat tournaments per year. The tournaments are open to any level. On every weekend, we have had 30+ teams in different age groups. This year, the numbers were down to less than half of that. Even the local AA teams that play every tournament held in their age group travelled elsewhere so as not to play Major and AAA teams.

2) The complex also has run the AAA state 10 and under championship. Every year has brought 20+ teams in that division alone. This year: only 8 entries.

3) We are getting a AA national tournament for 16 and under. Before, there was never enough teams in AA to warrant anything beyond AA state or regional. This year it looks like we will get huge numbers for this tournament.

Has anyone else seen this trend in not just USSSA, but in other sactioning bodies?

[andrewm]

I coach an 11AA USSSA team in Louisiana. There are plenty of AA teams that should be AAA at least, if not major. Alot of these teams skirt around the classifications by not playing in many USSSA tournaments. If you only play in a handful of tournaments, even if you win them, they won't move you up. It takes alot of complaints combined with convincing tournament results to have a team reclassified. Even if a team is moved up, I've seen them intentionally enter Major tournaments, get smacked around, then whine about it until they get moved back down to AA. Those are the teams coached by "rats" as this board like to call them.

Take Louisiana for example. Look at the number of AA teams in a given age group compared to AAA and Major. It's 3-1 AA versus AAA/Major combined.

But, you can only skirt around the rules for so long. Once you place first or second in the State tournament, you have to move up the next year.

[schoony]

The problem is that teams that are built to win can't. Coaches put together teams consisting of recruited all-star players and go try to win at the AAA and Major level. They find out teams are so good at those levels they just back down to a lower level so they can WIN WIN WIN.

So many coaches and parents are so infatuated with winning they will play in a lower division. As a result, this year's state tournament there were 5 teams in Major, 7 teams in AAA and 27 teams in AA. Coaches would rather lower their classification and beat up on teams as long as they can win. Now, the AA divisions are getting so full of AAA teams, the true league based teams don't have anywhere to play. Single A teams are supposed to be school based, but the AA teams are starting to drop to that level.

It is all a job of the USSSA director and tournament directors, but they won't do anything about it because they don't want the headaches or the confrontation.

I just can't see where beating up on teams does these kids any good. It boosts those coach's and parent's egos though...and that's what it's really about....

[TBBlue]

Originally posted by schoony
The problem is that teams that are built to win can't. Coaches put together teams consisting of recruited all-star players and go try to win at the AAA and Major level. They find out teams are so good at those levels they just back down to a lower level so they can WIN WIN WIN.

So many coaches and parents are so infatuated with winning they will play in a lower division. As a result, this year's state tournament there were 5 teams in Major, 7 teams in AAA and 27 teams in AA. Coaches would rather lower their classification and beat up on teams as long as they can win. Now, the AA divisions are getting so full of AAA teams, the true league based teams don't have anywhere to play. Single A teams are supposed to be school based, but the AA teams are starting to drop to that level.

It is all a job of the USSSA director and tournament directors, but they won't do anything about it because they don't want the headaches or the confrontation.

I just can't see where beating up on teams does these kids any good. It boosts those coach's and parent's egos though...and that's what it's really about....

So do you think rules that recommend redrafts, participation, and fair play would help?? Strict age limits for tournaments? League boundries? Hmm...wonder what kind of tournament you could have with these type rules...Probably no one would watch...

[schoony]

My point was that USSSA officials (tournament, league directors) AND coaches should try to classify their teams properly. This would put them in a weak position because there is more competition. Not many are willing to do that.

IMO this would help because teams would play other teams that have similiar skill levels - and hopefully be more competitive games instead of blowouts - nobody wants to watch a blowout (or play in one either).

USSSA sets rules to keep the all star teams out of the AA classification. How are all these hand picked teams playing AA then?

[stmaryrams]

This seems to be a problem at all levels. Locally the following story seems to be right in the same line only at an even lower level.

Hit the showers, boys
Youth baseball team ousted from league for being ‘too good’
Friday, June 17, 2005
Kirk D . Richards
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH


Columbus Stars coach Jerry Glick, front left, talks strategy with his team during the game against Georgian Heights.


No one misbehaved. No one broke any rules.

But after only a few games, the Columbus Stars have been kicked out of a recreational youth baseball league in Canal Winchester.

The players, ages 11 and 12, were deemed too good.

On May 9, the Stars beat the Red Sox, 18-0. Two weeks later, the Stars also beat World Harvest, 13-0. But the biggest blowout occurred on May 27, when the Stars defeated Sugar Grove II, 24-0.

Sugar Grove I lost to the Stars the next day, 10-2.

"After hearing and seeing the scores from that group, I called up the league office and said, ‘No way are we going to play them,’ " said Terry Morris, who coaches one of three teams from Bloom-Carroll schools in Fairfield County. "I wasn’t going to subject my players to that."

Other teams started complaining. And canceling. The Stars were pulled from the league schedule. The team appealed to the league’s commissioner, Joe Bernowski, to no avail.

Stars coach Jerry Glick said the ouster is unjustified. He thinks his team should have been credited with wins for the forfeits.

"I’ve been in amateur sports for 35 years," said Glick, 55. "This isn’t something I’ve had to deal with before."

Michael Mirones, board chairman for the Canal Winchester Joint Recreation District, returned the Stars’ $150 entry fee.

He said it would be wrong for other teams to bolt from the decade-old recreational league when, in his view, the Stars should play in a travel league against better teams.

"They were just beating the rec kids up," Mirones said. "It’s no fun for the kids that are losing."

Darla and J.R. Perry, parents of R.J., a Stars player who is 11, said the team feels wronged because it is too late to join another league.

"Our boys went into this with a good attitude," Mrs. Perry said. "It’s turned into a disaster."

Since April, the boys have been honing their skills on a field outside the Zion Lutheran Church on Obetz Road. They practice 2½ hours a day, four days a week.

Some have been playing together for four or five years, though not the entire team.

"I don’t think it’s fair," said Michael Allston, 12, a catcher and pitcher for the Stars. "We always played our best, and we were just winning games."

Teammate Matthew "Boomer" Hufferd, 12, who plays second base, said he thinks overprotective adults are to blame.

"If they learn at their age that they can forfeit on things they don’t want to do, it’s quitting," Hufferd said.

The Stars haven’t played a league game since June 6, when they beat the Cardinals, 17-6.

"One team told us they didn’t want their boys’ self-esteem battered," said Trina Cochran, mother of Mario, a Stars player who is 11.

During the team’s brief stay in the Canal Winchester league, opponents complained that the players were too big for their ages. R.J. Perry is 155 pounds. Michael Allston is 5 feet 8. Mrs. Perry resorted to carrying copies of each boy’s birth certificate to games to avoid a disqualification.

In addition, some accused the coach of plucking talented players from across Columbus to form an all-star team. The team then supplied addresses to the league showing that all but one of the 14 players live in the 43207 ZIP code.

Kris Hutchins, coach of the Yankees in the Canal Winchester league, said the parents of his players unanimously decided not to engage such a fearsome squad. It was an issue not only of competitiveness but also of safety, Hutchins said. "We didn’t want one of our kids to get hit in the face with a ball, not being able to defend himself."

The Stars would not have had a game this week, but their parents arranged a scrimmage on the West Side against Georgian Heights, which plays in another league. The teams had met earlier in the year during a preseason Teays Valley tournament. The Stars had won, 9-8.

Georgian Heights Coach Ken Carius said his team, which has a 24-1 record, was eager to avenge its only loss.

Players from both sides swatted liners and deep balls on Wednesday night, and defenders fielded grounders and made catches on the run. Fans leapt for joy when one of theirs got a base hit or scored.

In the end, the Stars won, 7-3.

The bad part about this is I know this team very well. I have coached several of the kids and they have no business in rec ball. Followup to this story, I invited them to play my son's USSSA team and they declined. They are scheduled for several tournaments this year and will likely be much too good for most of the teams they play.

This is not the kids fault but overzealous parents trying to get their kicks watching their team destroy other teams.