Is there a minimum play rule for 10 yr old Dizzy Dean AllStar? Regular league season was 2 innings. I noticed that 3 players on our local AllStar team were on the bench the entire tournament games.

http://dizzydeanbbinc.org/bbminor.htm

Is there any limit to how low this forum can sink? We're already overrun with little league major's questions. Now we're down to 10 year olds. What's next? Let me be the first to ask a T-ball question.

Is there a minimum and maximum height for the tee? Are players allowed to set the tee to their preferred height or do they have to take what is given?

OK, T-ball experts, here's your chance. Anyone? Rut?

Thanks DG, I looked there but maybe I missed the specific rule. I'll check again.

Bob Lyle, sorry to have infringed on your territory. You are a definate asset to this forum and a very kind person to boot. I hope your reply makes you feel like a bigger man.

That's because there ain't one. Minimum play rules are most often local rule additions, except maybe LL which I think has one, even at Williamsport.

Well,
 

Why do you go to an "umpire site" and ask coaching questions?

Bob's point (although written like I would normally write something) is well taken.

DG was kind in doing the research for a coach . . . good for him. HOWEVER, the question would have been better received if asked a EteamSleeze.

Umpires should worry about umpire issues, not social ones.

Again, if players and coaches didn't lie and cheat you wouldn't even NEED umpires.

Sorry guys, I didn't realize this was a umpire site (officiating) should have been my clue.

I'll take leave and let you all return to your regular scheduled program.

I'll disagree. I find it a very valid umpire question, as it pertains to the rules of the game. If you're officiating in that organization, you'd better darn well know that rule.

Some folks here turn up their nose at youth baseball, and will post childish retorts. I find that rather ironic.

The only thing I need to know in these games is how to take a protest. It's not an umpiring issue AT ALL.

I umpire LL tournament play every season, but I agree with Bob and Tee -- the quality of stuff is sliding faster than ever before.

Nooo,
 

It is NOT an UMPIRE question.

It is not the umpire's job, period.

It is NOT to do with "youth baseball", bubba. Even FED in some states have similar rules.

Again it is not the umpires job (except in FED played in Texas) to handle the issue. It is a coaching issue.

"It is not the umpire's job, period."

It depends on which rules are in effect.

In Little League (and the teen divisions Junior League and Senior League), a playing time violation is handled via protest, and the protest has to be made to the umpires before they leave the field.

And although some of you don't give a RA, others do.

I disagree Rich. An umpire needs to know nothing about the minimum play rule. An umpire only needs to know how to take a protest.

Unless the umpire is actually keeping track of substitutions at the little league level.... And I would find that hard to believe.

In both regular season and tournament play, Little League has some fairly complicated substitution/re-entry rules that must be tracked by the plate umpire. In some locales, some, most or all of these tracking responsibilities are delegated to an official scorer. These rules stand separate from the mandatory play regulation.

I can't believe people would want to protest a game in little league anyways. I mean seriously.... who cares? That's not what LL is all about.

This has nothing at all to do with the game. This is the same thing as asking a question about how many innings pitchers can pitch in a day/week or whatever.

Why would we as umpires be concerned with minimum player participation within any level of play? I, as an umpire, have not been asked or expected to keep track of player participation within any games that I have worked.

And,
 

Sam that is the issue.

It is not an umpire's job.

Tee

Re: And,
 

Minimum play protests depend on the substitutions record.

Who's job is it to track substitutions? (Hints below)

The lineup card is essential to a minimum play requirement protest, whether you think it should be or not.

In LL the umpire IS involved. Your personal dislike for the concept can't change that.

LL rules state:

LL REGULAR SEASON

4.19(f)
NOTE 2: All Little League officials are urged to take precautions to prevent protests. When a protest situation is imminent, the potential offenders should be notified immediately. Example: Should a manager, official scorer, league official or <b>umpire</b> discover that a pitcher is ineligible at the beginning of the game, or will become ineligible during the game or at the start of the next inning of play, the fact should be brought to the attention of the manager of the team involved. Such action should not be delayed until the infraction has occurred. However, failure of personnel to notify the manager of the infraction does not affect the validity of the protest.

LL TOURNAMENT RULES

Protests C(3)
NOTE 2: All officials, including all managers, coaches, scorekeepers, <b>umpires</b>, Tournament Directors, District Administrators, etc., should make every effort to prevent a situation that may result in the forfeiture of a game or suspension of tournament privileges. However, failure by any party to prevent such situations shall not affect the validity of a protest.







General Hints on responsibilities:

OBR: 3.06 The manager shall immediately notify the umpire in chief of any substitution and shall state to the umpire in chief the substitute's place in the batting order.

LL: 3.06 The manager shall immediately notify the umpire-in-chief of any substitution and shall state to the umpire-in-chief the substitute's place in the batting order.

OBR: 4.01
a) First, the home manager shall give his batting order to the umpire in chief, in duplicate.
b) Next, the visiting manager shall give his batting order to the umpire in chief, in duplicate.
c) The umpire in chief shall make certain that the original and copies of the respective batting orders are identical, and then tender a copy of each batting order to the opposing manager. The copy retained by the umpire shall be the official batting order. The tender of the batting order by the umpire shall establish the batting orders. Thereafter, no substitutions shall be made by either manager, except as provided in the rules.

LL 4.01
(a) the home team manager shall give the batting order in duplicate to the umpire-in-chief;
(b) next, the visiting manager shall give the batting order in duplicate to the umpire-in-chief;
(c) the umpire-in-chief shall make certain that the original and duplicate copies are the same, then provide a copy of each batting order to the opposing manager. The original copy retained by the umpire shall be the official batting order;

OBR 9.04
a)The umpire in chief shall stand behind the catcher. (He usually is called the plate umpire.) His duties shall be to:
8) Inform the official scorer of the official batting order, and any changes in the lineups and batting order, on request;

LL 9.04
The umpire-in-chief shall stand behind the catcher. This umpire usually is called the plate umpire. The umpire-in-chief's duties shall be to:
(7) inform the official scorer of the official batting order; and any changes in the lineups and batting order, on request;

Re: Re: And,
 

This has nothing to do with minimum play.

So along with keeping track of all the subs, and reentry and all, the umpire must write down somewhere when the players enter and leave the game? I would like to see that lineup card.

Please cite the ruling that says that an umpire keeps track of how many innings a player plays.

Have you been taking lessons from coachJM in how to boring stuff that has nothing to do with anything?

So how is the umpire going to know that the pitcher is not elgible? Is the umpire supposed to watch every one of this team's games and keep track of how much this guy pitches? If the opposing manager tells the umpire that the pitcher is over the limit, then go and tell the pitcher's manager to take him out. Unless someone tells the umpire, how is he going to know?

That is like saying drinking Pepsi at home before you go to the game is illegal. Ok well, how is the umpire supposed to know if someone drank Pepsi?


What does this have to do with keeping track of how many innings a kid plays? The UIC keeps track of the batting order. I already knew that.

What does a plate confrence have to do with keeping track of how many innings a kid plays?

Once again, what does this have to do with keeping track of how many innings a kid plays?

Instead of posting various rules, how about you cite the rule that says the umpire is in charge of making sure every gets their minimum play in.

Luke, I never said the umpire is responsible for knowing how many innings the kid plays. )BTW, the MPR rule also includes a requirement that the player complete one AB, defined as entering the box with a 0-0 count and either being put out or reaching base.)

Tee said it isn't an umpire's job. I was responding to that thought.

I said that the lineup card is evidence and that keeping it IS the umpires job.

I also posted the LL rules that said, in LL at least, an umpire IS responsible for preventing protests if possible.

In LL, an umpire has responsibilities that he doesn't have in other organizations. Many experienced LL umpires DO keep track of when a sub was made. When they enter it on their card they note the inning (like T5, B3, or whatever). It is necessary, not only for the MPR rules, but for the substitution rules, pitching rules, and the SPR rule.

If you don't want to do LL games, fine.

If you don't understand LL rules and don't care to learn because you don't do LL, fine.

But then don't interject yourself into situations you don't understand.

[Edited by Rich Ives on Jun 27th, 2005 at 08:52 AM]

And Rich,
 

Your answer is complete bullsh1t.

This isn't about line-up cards: it is about someone trying to make a statement that an umpire is somehow involved in how many innings players play (or if they play at all).

Keep trying bubba, this thread has nothing to do with keeping line-up cards.

BTW, I KNOW all the OBR rules you quoted.

Boooooring!

If players and coaches didn't lie and cheat you wouldn't need umpires.

[Edited by Tim C on Jun 27th, 2005 at 10:11 AM]

U of M Sam "Why would we as umpires be concerned with minimum player participation within any level of play? I, as an umpire, have not been asked or expected to keep track of player participation within any games that I have worked"

Tim "And,

Sam that is the issue.

It is not an umpire's job."

The thread was posted exactly as above. Tim was responding to Sam when Sam stated that umpires are not concerned with nor keep track of, player participation.

I doubt that LL umpires actually keep track of substitutions in anything other than tournament games. I never seen it done. Teams mostly go book to book in regards to lineup, subs, score, etc.

Kaliix
 

Hey thanks for pointing out that my poor writing skills confused this a little.

I keep track of players on my line-up card. I do not, however, make any notations as to "when" a change occures.

I have listed in a separate thread the "magic way" to keep a line-up card that is accurate and complete without taking an undue amount of time from the game.

There is NO WAY by looking at my card that you could determine HOW MANY innings a player particiapted.

You could dsee that the entered, or left, or even re-entered under some codes . . . you could not however know "how many" innings he played or the # of outs that there were when a player change was made.

This thread is just another attempt by coaches to make sure that the other teams coach is not cheating.

It is a league or tournament issue NOT an umpire issue.

I don't give a flying fuk who plays in my game or how many innings they play. I, of course, would accept a protest from some poor rat that thought he was wronged.

Is there a minimum play rule for 10 yr old Dizzy Dean AllStar? Regular league season was 2 innings. I noticed that 3 players on our local AllStar team were on the bench the entire tournament games.



I'm just curious. Did the original poster ever get his question answered? Seems like we've strayed a bit from the topic; doesn't it?

No,
 

It has not strayed at all.

The issue is "why" would an umpire know the answer?

That makes all the posts to the thread on topic.

Oh, I remember that rule. DD Rulebook Sect 3-76, Article a-y.

1.0 A player must play a minimun of 2 innings during the regular season. Up to 3 players from any local AllStar team, (pick one), can sit on the bench the entire tournament, under the following conditions:

1. Their mom is uglier than a starting players mom.
2. Their dad is NOT on the local board.
3. Their parents are not smart enough to actually look up rules of the League.
4. The League bought 3 extra uniforms and informed you that they must be worn.
5. The head coach is truly a self centered ego driven baseball maniac and knows that his 10yr old starters will be moving up to the Pros next year, and must be showcased as much as possible.
6. Someone named Burt & Jerry send email inquiries to Officiating.com

I note that all those rules say SHOULD an umpire discover/happen upon/trip over something untoward......about a player's eligibility...etc. There's no requirement for an umpire to begin any investigations, as I see it.

I daresay I will NOT be making any inquiries along those lines before/during a game. I will, however, take a coach's protest and ensure it is delivered to the appropriate committee for resolution :D

Re: And Rich,
 

Tee, by your own choice you do not do Little League and avoid Little League. So be it. That is your choice.

HOWEVER, your lack of involvement makes for a lack of knowledge on how a LL game is administered.

Stick to what you know and don't try to impose your views and methods on an organization you refuse to participate with or understand.

Rich,

I have a few questions.

Say the reserves are not listed on the lineup card. Just 9 names listed.

1. Is the umpire supposed to refuse to accept such a lineup card?

2. Is the umpire supposed to go to the dugout and count the number of players on the team?

3. Is he supposed to write in the names of the reserves himself?

4. If the lineup card does not have the reserves on it, how is the umpire supposed to keep track of minimum play?

5. What if the manager tells the bad players to come to the game, not in uniform and sit in the stands? He only wants the 9 best players in uniform. Then only the best players get to play. Then if one of the players gets hurt, the manager signals to one of the kids in the stands to change into his uniform. The manager then says "Hey, Johnny just showed up. Good timing, go play left field."

Re: Re: And,
 

And like a cancer, it grows.

The dark side is definitely winning. Where's Hans, Luke and Chewbaca when you need them?

I was going to try and outdo Rich, but I don't have the energy. Please pretend that I quoted 6 separate rules in their entirety and that none of the rules is remotely relevant to this conversation.

Re: Re: And,
 

Wow, that's just super. What does it have to do with this thread which began: "Is there a minimum play rule for 10 yr old <b>Dizzy Dean AllStar?</b>

"What does it have to do with this thread which began . . "


What's Tee's point in ranting about it's not the umpire's job.

Fact is, in LL, is IS part of the umpire's job - he just doesn't want it to be true.

Just because the big dogs don't like it doesn't change it.

Rich,
 

It has nothing to do with umpiring . . . it is only about coaches cheating.

No Little League Umpire I have talked to has EVER kept track of "innings" that people play crap.

I will leave the thread since it is a Rat issue and nothing to do with umpires.

Squeak on!

I could look at my game sheet and tell how many innnings each pitcher has pitched, and when one is removed, how many trips it took. But I am keeping this to know whether a pitcher removed can return. I don't keep track of innings for any other players.

???
 

Is a "Game sheet" your line-up card.

You are the first umpire I have ever talked (written) to that actually keeps track of innings pitched.

How can that impact a game?

I mean if you were working and had a pitcher replaced by trips wouldn't you just know it?

Also, I don't think that in all my years I have ever had a pitcher return to a game (other than once I did have a rat bring in the LH first baseman to pitch to a LH hitter then switch him back for the original pitcher who had gone to first).

I have just never known an umpire to keep records like you mention.

Re: Rich,
 

We started running substitutions officially through the UiC in our District tournaments last year. I was a little overwhelmed, but I'm doing better this year, partly due to Tee's useful primer on the subject. (I had to add the part about keeping track of the inning of the substitution.)

In my district, the DA has asked the TD's to run substitutions this way. Furthermore, the UiC is supposed to warn a coach about a proposed substitution that would violate the participation rules. (I don't keep track of ABs, so I have to ask the scorekeeper about the 1AB portion of the rule.)

We also get lineup cards that the TD has approved that indicate whether any players are ineligible to pitch because of previous participation. Again, we are expected to prevent a protest in this area as well.

An error isn't always a cheating attempt; some of these managers are in their first tournament, and they aren't used to the rules or the scrutiny.

Since I'm certain that the District Administrator, not Tee, defines what umpires in our tournaments will do, I haven't asked why he does this. I assume that in order to avoid protests, he wants two pairs of eyes (the Uic and the official scorekeeper) looking at each substitution.

-LL

Re: ???
 

The lineup is what the coaches give me. My game sheet is a pre-printed sheet I have developed where I keep up with stuff, off the lineup sheet, where I only keep up with lineup changes. Stuff like offensive and defensive trips, courtesy runners for pitchers and catchers (in Fed), team warnings, ejections (if any), and if there have been no subs until late in the game I keep up with them there also. Because of the way I keep it, I can tell you how many innings each pitcher pitched, and on what trip they were removed. Pitcher's don't return very often after being removed, but when they do, I will know if they are eligible to do so. I don't have too much problem remembering when 2 trips in an inning (OBR) happens, but in FED it's the 4th trip that gets the pitcher removed, and if I don't keep a record I will not know when that happens. Somtimes coaches (FED) don't know how many trips they have made (imagine that) so they will ask before they go out if they have a trip left. After the 3rd trip I will let them know that was the 3rd trip.

When one has to change the subject instead of answering the question, I would guess that means he has no answer.

I guess this is what passes as honesty for a Rat.

Re: Re: ???
 

I would hope you keep track of that. The rule book requires it, and it will save you a lot of trouble if the coach thinks it is his 3rd visit and it is actually his 4th.

Re: Re: Rich,
 

Check it out Rich. Here is a guy who works LL games who says that he has to ask the scorekeeper if to see if the coach is trying to cheat.

LLeaguer, why does the TD make you keep track of the minimum play, when you are only able to keep track of half of it? That makes no sense at all. Why not just tell the scorekeeper to do it all himself, and it the coach tries to make a wrong sub, to yell something out?

And I am still awaiting a respose to the questions I asked earlier.

How can an umpire keep track of minimum play if only the starters are listed on the lineup card?

"How can an umpire keep track of minimum play if only the starters are listed on the lineup card?"

Fairly easily, but only the defensive end of it. We don't track AB's, so we've only got half the story. Most LL umpires, that are any good, keep track of who's in and out, and when.

Tim, little kids baseball seems to set your hair on fire. I mean, you really go out of your way to get upset about LL baseball. Why is that?

Some folks just step over it. You step right in the middle of it, and then complain about the c#@* on your shoes. I'm not really complaining, because it's actually quite funny to see how you spin out of control over this stuff. Please keep it rolling, just don't blow a gasket.

I think y'all are reading more into Rich's position than he's actually saying. The only real "involvement" with minimum play rules a Little League umpire is expected to have during tournament play is to handle the protest if an MPR protest is lodged before the umpires leave the field.

Umpires are not expected or required to monitor a team's compliance with MPR in "real-time" during the game. Some umpires, acting in the spirit of rules Rich has quoted which implore all league officials, including umpires, to do whatever they can to prevent and avoid protest situations, will "remind" coaches during the game about their MPR requirements.

Handling protests and issuing such "reminders" is about as "involved" in MPR as the umpire gets, though.

That is exactly the opposite of what Rich is saying. He quoted like 20 rules, which have nothing do with MPR, but he acts like they have some bearing on this situation.

You say that umpires are not required to monitor MPR in real time, but Rich Ives disagrees.

Also, if you know some guy is violating MPR, then tell the manager. But unless this guy is getting pinch ran for after he just pinch hit, how is the umpire going to know?

With all that he's claimed, that would be difficult.

Kyle
 

Little League Baseball (or little kid ball as you call it) has nothing to do with.

Now Little League UMPIRES, that has every thing to do with it!

If players and coaches did not lie and cheat you wouldn't even need umpires.



[Edited by Tim C on Jun 28th, 2005 at 10:35 AM]

Don't we have enough to do without doing the coach's job for him, too?

...how long before we are 'encouraged' to warm up pitchers between innings?

This has nothing to do with little league, and everything to do with umpires being asked to be hall-monitor for administrative nonsense. I'm hired to call a game, not babysit coaches. If a coach "cheats" in an administrative matter, let the league handle it.

If LL in particular is beginning to ask umpires to track administrative crap... well... just one more reason for good umpires to work elsewhere.

Re: Re: Re: Rich,
 

Sorry,

My lineup card lists reserves.

-LL

Re: Re: Re: Rich,
 

I am not the TD, nor have I asked this specific question of her, so I can only answer indirectly.

I've been umpiring in LL tournaments for 5 or 6 years, and I'm a junior umpire at these events. But when I step onto the field, I probably have more tournament experience than any of the participants. Off the field, the scorekeeper may have just shown up for her first tournament game ever, especially on the beginning days of the tournament.

In many cases, I can tell if the player has had one AB (PA, really). But if a player is being removed after only one inning on defense, I'll ask the scorekeeper the specific quetion, "Did she bat last inning?" It's really not very hard. But if anybody has a suggestion on how I could efficiently keep track of PAs as well, I'm listening.

I'm not saying every umpire should do this. I'm doing a job that the TD has asked for. The real downside is that the extra scrutiny slows the game down a little between innings.

-LL

my suggestion would be that if you insisted on some extra coin since you are now the UiC/Asst-Deputy-Junior-Scorekeeper, your TD would magically find a way to get the assigned scorekeeper to do his/her job :D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Rich,
 

You don't get it.

What happens if the manager brings out the lineup card with only 9 names on it. The reserves are not listed.

Are you going to go to the dugout and count how many reserves there are? Are you going to write down the reserves' names on the lineup card?

LL Pay
 

Great idea. Now, pay did come up last night, though not exactly in this context. The game went very slowly and was a laugher. I asked for a 15% raise*, and she reminded me of her 50% kickback policy, so we agreed on a 30% gross (15% net) one-time raise. I'll be back out on Wednesday, so I'll work the same angle on the participation enforcement. I'll bet I can get the same deal.

(The umpire coordinator was a champ, though, and took our burger orders before the concession stand closed.)

Seriously, I'm not really trying to get out of this. It isn't burdensome, and I'm qualified to do it. Am I flouting tradition, or setting some outrageous precedent that you are afraid of? (Though I can't imagine that LL umpires are considered trend setters.) By counting innings am I neglecting a more important between-innings responsibility (beyond keeping the game moving, which does suffer)? Have I violated union rules or some professional ethic?

-LL

* Over LL base umpire rates, of course.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rich,
 

Quite possibly.
Perhaps it would be best to call it a roster sheet. Since this is a district tournament, each team has a pre-approved roster. Typically, each player is listed on the roster, with a notation if she cannot play (do to injury or absence, e.g.). Additionally, the players that are ineligible to pitch (due to pitching in prior days) are marked as well. The starting players are listed first, and the reserves at the bottom of the sheet. The original positions are also noted, but I only care about the batting order and the pitcher. The TD approves the roster sheets before the game begins and delivers them to the UiC before game time. I can ask her any questions I have at that time.

At the plate meeting, I ask each manager if the roster sheets are correct. I double-check the number of reserves and their special status. If there are absent players, I ask if there is any chance of late arrival. If there is, I warn the manager that once the player enters the dugout, she is accountable against the participation rules. I also make sure that the managers agree with the pitching limitations.

Luke, I'm not Rich, but I think these are the questions you were frustrated with me not answering. Let me do so.
By the plate meeting, I've already had a chance to discuss this with the TD. We have also, I suppose, gone over policing the stands for "ringers," etc.
The TD would compare the roster sheet with her official team roster.
No.
If the manager announces a substitution with a player not on the sheet, I'll be calling the TD over. I have no idea what she would do.
At the plate meeting, I've asked the managers to alert me if any absent player shows up. If this scenario played out, I'd drop it in the TD's lap.

I appreciate your cynicism, and I'll probably adopt some of your stance in the future. (I've actually never been the UiC when an absent player has shown up late. It's probably pretty rare.) Truly, the majority of the application of this watchfulness is to prevent an honest accident. (I'm pretty sure that such accidents are honest, since a violation is very visible, very protestable, and very serious.)

-LL

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rich,
 

What if this is not a torunament? Then you would have a normal lineup card.

Now that I understand how the system works, I see that it is not your job even more.

The TD has the lineup before you do. The TD gives you the lineup, not the maanager. I assume the TD give a copy of the lineup to the scorer too.

So now the scorer has all the info needed to keep track of minimum play and pitching limits. Why do you need to be involved? Is the scorer so bad at doing his job that you need to help him with it?

Minimum play has nothing to do with the game at all. Therefore the umpire has no reason to keep track of it.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rich,
 

I respect your opinion, but I respect the opinion of my TD even more. Since the duty is neither onerous nor distasteful, I choose to do it. I am not exactly motivated by this, but shirking the duty would signal to the District Administrator and the Umpire Coordinator that I was not ready for "bigger" assignments.
Umpires deal with non-game issues all the time. See the recent thread on how non-participants should conduct themselves during pre-game warmups. Heck, even keeping a lineup card has nothing to do with balls/strikes/outs; why not let the scorekeeper worry about the official batter in BOO appeals?

Perhaps we can agree on this. When I'm working your tournament, I'll do this your way.

-LL

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rich,
 

During regular season Little League, the umpire is clearly and unequivocally NOT responsible for tracking MPR. MPR is a regulation, not a playing rule, and it is not protestable. MPR violations are a matter for the board of directors to handle.

During Little League tournament play, things change. Tournament rules provide for player re-entry, but ONLY after the player they are replacing has played 3 consecutive defensive outs and batted at least once, which happens to be exactly the mandatory play requirement; therefore, the rule is described as "players can re-enter when their sub has met MPR."

Since the legality of all substitutions is a function of the umpire's lineup responsibilities, you can say with some accuracy the umpire must "be involved in" policing MPR in Little League tournament play. In my experience, this responsibility is typically discharged with considerable assistance from the official scorer.

Having done LL tournaments for the past five years, I have never received a line-up card nor asked about wether everyone has played. That is the coaches job and if they fail at it, there are rules in the LL tournament rules to handle such occurences.

The most I might do (in deference to "preventative" umpiring) is to very discreetly ask each coach around the fourth inning if he has all his subs in. No more.

JMO



Doug

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Rich,
 

Both of those are game issues.

The first one has to do with preventing pitchers from thowing at batters.

On the second one:

1. Unless you are some weird area where they pay people to score the game, then there really isn't an official scorer. There is just a reserve in the dugout keeping score for his team.

2. If you are working "big time" baseball, where the scorer sits in the press box, it is a hassle to confer with him about something. Subs. don't happen that often, and it is easy for the umpire to write it down quickly.


Also I never said to not do what the TD told you to do. The TD is stupid for thinking that you care about if every kid gets to play so much. It has nothing to do with the game. If the TD asked you to stick around after the game to help drag the infield would you do it? I would hope that you would get in his face and tell him that you don't care about crap like that and that it is not your job. Maybe you should have a talk with the TD and tell him you are sick of doing the coach's job. What is next? You have to keep a pitch count, and let the manager know when the pitcher hits X number of pitches?

....help warm up pitchers between innings, and get another 15% raise! :D

'tradition' aside, my general objection would be that I have enough to do already without taking on the coaches' and scorer's jobs also. Do you appreciate and seek out opportunities to do 3-4 other peoples' jobs in additional to your own at your place of employment?

I would say my 'employers' at the field deserve my best umpiring effort and concentration on matters that ONLY I can do (rules, game management, playing conditions, strikes/balls, etc). That can be degraded by these other distractions, esp if I have to invent methods to track them :eyeroll:

I am suprised at the massive response to a simple situation. Umpires need to keep track of strikes, outs and certainly your balls. Umpires should not care about minimum play details.

Why should you be surprised? This a little league site now. That's what little league sites do. They endlessly debate stupid little league rules that don't mean sh!t.

No, what little league sites do now is complain constantly that little league umpires are posting on them, or that little league umpires exist, or that they care about little league rules.

This thread has had contributions from 7 small-ball contributors (including 2 coaches) and 11 Real Umpires(tm). I count about 64 individual messages, 23 from the small-ballers. Of these, 4 were actually a discussion about the actual rule question. The rest were driven in another direction by the Real Umpires(tm).

Since that discussion actually drove off the OP before his question was answered, it's possible that the real small-ball discussion would have gone an a little longer, but if the goal is to keep these conversations short, you'd expect different behavior from the Real Umpires(tm). I will not presume to question what actual goal would motivate the behavior we do see on little league boards from the Real Umpires(tm).

For my part, I've tried (until now) merely to clear up misstatements and answer questions about actual Little League practice. I assumed, since the questions came from Real Umpires(tm), that I was helping.

-LL