Balk ends NCAA game

[TriggerMN]

Anybody see this? Oh boy, I hope that 3rd base umpire knows he's 150% right on that one.

ASU and CSF are tied 2-2, no outs, bottom 9. CSF has 1st and 3rd, and the ASU pitcher is intentionally walking the batter. On the 4th pitch, the 3rd base umpire calls a balk, scoring the winning run.

I didn't see it in live action, and they showed the replay about a dozen times, trying to figure it out. I still couldn't find it. As soon as the pitcher released the ball, he scratched his nose, so I thought perhaps the ump was calling him for going to his mouth on the mound. Later, the ASU coach was interviewed on SportsCenter and was told that the pitcher did not come to a clear and discernable stop.

It sure looked like he stopped to me. Some folks are saying that the call shouldn't have been made because of the situation in the game. Well, I do disagree with that to a degree. If the pitcher just rolls right into the pitch, you gotta call the balk. But in this situation, it appears that he did in fact stop. Anybody else see this?

By the way, I just read a news report on the game on ESPN, which says the home plate umpire called the balk. However, it was in fact the 3rd base umpire.

[jumpmaster]

The pitcher failed to come to a complete stop. It was absolutely 100% the correct call...

[Dave Hensley]

If you bounce, you balk. He bounced, so he balked.

It certainly isn't the first time a pitcher has "gotten lazy" with his mechanics while delivering an IBB. It is, however, the first time an NCAA umpire has busted him on it for the game-ending play of a CWS Super Regional game.

[Rich]

Originally posted by jumpmaster
The pitcher failed to come to a complete stop. It was absolutely 100% the correct call...

This call takes gonads, but as a lower level NCAA umpire (2 D-III conferences), I appreciate what the big boys are doing WRT balks and the strike zone (moving it up). It makes my job a heckuva lot easier as all I have to say is -- this is how the NCAA wants it.

I've noticed though that the MLB "complete stop" is starting to take a hit. Lots of bouncing and sliding into the pitches from the set position in recent games.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by TriggerMN

Anybody see this? Oh boy, I hope that 3rd base umpire knows he's 150% right on that one.

ASU and CSF are tied 2-2, no outs, bottom 9. CSF has 1st and 3rd, and the ASU pitcher is intentionally walking the batter. On the 4th pitch, the 3rd base umpire calls a balk, scoring the winning run. It sure looked like he stopped to me.

Whether he stopped or didn't is irrelevant. It was an IW. No deception no nothing. R1 was going to get second base anyway because of the IW.

It's not like we had R1 only and R1 was a Rickey Henderson type runner and F1 was trying to gain an unfair advantage by not adhereing to the rule. There was R1/R3 and an intentional base on balls. Runners going no-where.

Was it the correct call?

Technically speaking - yes but in the spirit of the game IMO a horrible call. Why didn't the other umpires call it?
Why! because they wanted the players to decide.

It's like an NBA / Hockey game where the officials in that particular sport allow the players to decide. Unless it's a BLATANT foul, they allow more contact towards the end of the game.

Papa C speaks of something similar in his book 51 ways to ruin a baseball game. The aforementioned could be number 52.

There's a reason the rule-makers put in the wording for a "decernable stop" and it had nothing to do with F1 giving a base on balls.

I would bet a "dollar to a donut" no PRO umpire worth his weight in gold would call a Balk on Roger Clemens in game 7 of the world series for not coming to a stop when intentionally walking a batter.

In Summary IMO a Horrible call and my gut tells me that perhaps the NCAA will adopt the FED ruling on Intentional walks in the future. Simply call TIME and send B1 to first.

They changed the obstruction rule when the Texas first base-men constantly blocked the base before actual possession of the ball. The following year the rule change.

Now we have a balk called on an intentional base on balls. Perhaps the rule will change to the FED ruling as early as next season.

IMO it had nothing to do with Gonads, but some umpire with a huge ego wanting to make the BIG call.

Pete Booth

[Bob Lyle]

Originally posted by PeteBooth


IMO it had nothing to do with Gonads, but some umpire with a huge ego wanting to make the BIG call.

Pete Booth

Do you umpire NCAA baseball? Do you know how NCAA umpires are evaluated? Have you been to a recent NCAA clinic? The answer is obviously no because if you had you'd know that there is another possible answer.

These umpires are being evaluated by videotape for their compliance with NCAA rules. It's entirely likely that the umpire made the call because he wants to go back next year. Now that coaches no longer have veto power and umpire supervisors are supreme, his future is in the hands of the umpire supervisor. I'll bet he made that call cause he didn't want to explain to his supervisor the pyscho babble that you put in your post. Your psycho babble is yesterday's umpiring philosophy and umpires with that philosophy are fast becoming ex-NCAA umpires.

[Rich]

Originally posted by PeteBooth
Originally posted by TriggerMN

Anybody see this? Oh boy, I hope that 3rd base umpire knows he's 150% right on that one.

ASU and CSF are tied 2-2, no outs, bottom 9. CSF has 1st and 3rd, and the ASU pitcher is intentionally walking the batter. On the 4th pitch, the 3rd base umpire calls a balk, scoring the winning run. It sure looked like he stopped to me.

Whether he stopped or didn't is irrelevant. It was an IW. No deception no nothing. R1 was going to get second base anyway because of the IW.

It's not like we had R1 only and R1 was a Rickey Henderson type runner and F1 was trying to gain an unfair advantage by not adhereing to the rule. There was R1/R3 and an intentional base on balls. Runners going no-where.

Was it the correct call?

Technically speaking - yes but in the spirit of the game IMO a horrible call. Why didn't the other umpires call it?
Why! because they wanted the players to decide.

It's like an NBA / Hockey game where the officials in that particular sport allow the players to decide. Unless it's a BLATANT foul, they allow more contact towards the end of the game.

Papa C speaks of something similar in his book 51 ways to ruin a baseball game. The aforementioned could be number 52.

There's a reason the rule-makers put in the wording for a "decernable stop" and it had nothing to do with F1 giving a base on balls.

I would bet a "dollar to a donut" no PRO umpire worth his weight in gold would call a Balk on Roger Clemens in game 7 of the world series for not coming to a stop when intentionally walking a batter.

In Summary IMO a Horrible call and my gut tells me that perhaps the NCAA will adopt the FED ruling on Intentional walks in the future. Simply call TIME and send B1 to first.

They changed the obstruction rule when the Texas first base-men constantly blocked the base before actual possession of the ball. The following year the rule change.

Now we have a balk called on an intentional base on balls. Perhaps the rule will change to the FED ruling as early as next season.

IMO it had nothing to do with Gonads, but some umpire with a huge ego wanting to make the BIG call.

Pete Booth

Like Bob said, you have no clue how NCAA umpires are scrutinized. Just this season, Yeast on a bulletin made it quite clear this was to be called. At all times.

[DG]

The pitcher could have done it correctly and this would be non-issue. In fact, he could have pitched from the windup, if they are going to walk the batter with a runner on 1B anyway.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by PeteBooth
Originally posted by TriggerMN

Anybody see this? Oh boy, I hope that 3rd base umpire knows he's 150% right on that one.

ASU and CSF are tied 2-2, no outs, bottom 9. CSF has 1st and 3rd, and the ASU pitcher is intentionally walking the batter. On the 4th pitch, the 3rd base umpire calls a balk, scoring the winning run. It sure looked like he stopped to me.

Whether he stopped or didn't is irrelevant. It was an IW. No deception no nothing. R1 was going to get second base anyway because of the IW.

It's not like we had R1 only and R1 was a Rickey Henderson type runner and F1 was trying to gain an unfair advantage by not adhereing to the rule. There was R1/R3 and an intentional base on balls. Runners going no-where.

Was it the correct call?

Technically speaking - yes but in the spirit of the game IMO a horrible call. Why didn't the other umpires call it?
Why! because they wanted the players to decide.

It's like an NBA / Hockey game where the officials in that particular sport allow the players to decide. Unless it's a BLATANT foul, they allow more contact towards the end of the game.

Papa C speaks of something similar in his book 51 ways to ruin a baseball game. The aforementioned could be number 52.

There's a reason the rule-makers put in the wording for a "decernable stop" and it had nothing to do with F1 giving a base on balls.

I would bet a "dollar to a donut" no PRO umpire worth his weight in gold would call a Balk on Roger Clemens in game 7 of the world series for not coming to a stop when intentionally walking a batter.

In Summary IMO a Horrible call and my gut tells me that perhaps the NCAA will adopt the FED ruling on Intentional walks in the future. Simply call TIME and send B1 to first.

They changed the obstruction rule when the Texas first base-men constantly blocked the base before actual possession of the ball. The following year the rule change.

Now we have a balk called on an intentional base on balls. Perhaps the rule will change to the FED ruling as early as next season.

IMO it had nothing to do with Gonads, but some umpire with a huge ego wanting to make the BIG call.

Pete Booth

I'm sorry to see you post this Pete. I've not seen you be so wrong very often. It's obvious you are not calling NCAA ball. If you were, you'd know that not only is this a balk, but your customers and your boss have been asking for this call to be made. This had nothing to do with ego. This had everything to do with a lazy pitcher.

[wyatt]

This is like calling a hand check 30 feet from the basket, time running out, tie game, in the bonus, sending the guy to the line with one second left.

Absolutely terrible. No way around it.

[Rich]

Originally posted by wyatt
This is like calling a hand check 30 feet from the basket, time running out, tie game, in the bonus, sending the guy to the line with one second left.

Absolutely terrible. No way around it.

OK, whatever.

Tell me why the pitcher couldn't be bothered to come to a complete stop in a situation so mundane as an intentional walk. Can't, can you?

[wyatt]

Why can't the catcher be bothered to actually crouch? Was the home plate umpire set in his normal postition call the pitch? Were the runners leading off aggressively?

I guess everyone was lazy here. In this sitch, as you know, the mindset is to get the pitches over with so we can get to playing real baseball again.

If this is the kind of umpiring the NCAA and Yeast want to hang their hats on good luck with that. IMO, they ruined a great ending to a great game.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by wyatt
IMO, they ruined a great ending to a great game.

Again, it was the pitcher who erred. It's amazing the number of people who want to fry an umpire doing his job while giving a free ride to the pitcher who was NOT doing his.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by wyatt
This is like calling a hand check 30 feet from the basket, time running out, tie game, in the bonus, sending the guy to the line with one second left.

Absolutely terrible. No way around it.

If the NCAA basketball supervisor has stressed that he wants the hand check called in that circumstance,then you'd damnwell better be calling it. As long as it's been called consistently throughout the game,there's no real problem.

Also, a hand check with a second left might also generate enough contact to put the dribbler off-balance enough that he is now unable to set his feet quickly enough to get that last second shot off. You just can't make a general statement that will cover all situations. If that hand check stopped the dribbler from getting a last second shot off- in the calling official's opinion, he should be calling a foul on that play.

Btw, what did the umpire that made the call and his on-site supervisor have to say about the call when you discussed it with them? You did discuss the call with them to get their side before you subsequently publically dumped on them, didn't you?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 12th, 2005 at 06:37 AM]

[Rich]

Originally posted by wyatt
Why can't the catcher be bothered to actually crouch? Was the home plate umpire set in his normal postition call the pitch? Were the runners leading off aggressively?

I guess everyone was lazy here. In this sitch, as you know, the mindset is to get the pitches over with so we can get to playing real baseball again.

If this is the kind of umpiring the NCAA and Yeast want to hang their hats on good luck with that. IMO, they ruined a great ending to a great game.

If that's the case, then they should allow the defense to wave the batter to first base like the FED.