mid June, during summer ball (Legion)...

Alright, so I can't sing, but here's what happened in my wonderful night.

1st: Launched a player for saying: "That's f*ckin bull****, there's no way." On a strike three called, so long.

2nd: 1 on, 1 out, batter has a 3-2 count and steps out of the batter's box -- does not request time, so live ball. The pitcher gets a free pitch and completely misses, ball 4. Coach B then comes and talks with me and tells me he wants the player to be called out for being out of the batter's box. He claimed it was an automatic dead ball and the batter was out. I said no coach, I didn't think so, this would be true if he hit the ball fair or foul. He goes on to tell me that he is a licensed umpire and that I'm wrong. :eek:

3rd: Mid-innings, close play at the plate, I've got safe. Coach A comes out and tells me my call is bull*hit and that I'm blind. See ya coach, launched.

4th: Runners at 2nd and 3rd, 2 out. Batter-runner hits a single to left field, my partner ruled he missed first. A proper appeal was made he punches him out, 3 outs, no runs score. Only problem is, coaches from Team B think the run scores because the play had ended and then the appeal happened. :eek: So, the coach is all p*ssed, finally tells me this is bush league and he knows where this is coming from. Hell, my easiest ejection all night, accusing my partner and I of cheating -- see ya coach. Then one of those wonderful fans thinks he knows the rule and start hollering, etc, see ya dude. Of course, he thought he was going to stay and watch the game, but quickly he learned the game wasn't going to be completed until he left.

Interesting night, filled with the good old summer time blues! BTW, lucky the assignor was there, no compliants from him. No one there probably wants me to come back and work except him (luckly that's all that counts). :)

I can see you tossing the players and the coaches but I can't understand why you tossed the fan. I sort of made a pledge that I would never toss a fan unless it rose to the level that the fan could possibly cause a physical confrontation. I just can not recall ever watching a game on TV when Gerry Davis threw out a fan after he heckled him about a strike call. Fans are fans. They can say or think what they want. I just usually smile at them, or give them no reaction at all. Just completely pretend like you never heard them. Both these reactions usually ticks them off even more. Any one else out there agree or disagree?

Is that like "sort of" pregnant?

The "sort of" was meant that if the action of fan caused a security risk I would of course break my pledge. DUGH!!

Only 2 games I officiated in, that I remember being on TV in 20 yrs. Neither were baseball. Anyway, I agree that you should stay away from the fans in the stands however, sometimes even they must be asked to leave.

I am head to head with a coach discussing an issue at the plate. Fan behind backstop is yelling at the coach to hit me. Sorry Charlie, your going home. But it did end my heated discussion with the coach. Another time, a drunk father is encouraging his son to throw at the batters, from, behind the team bench. Sent home.

Sometimes, Man can not live by a smile alone. I'm sure HHH will stand by this.

Another time, a drunk father is encouraging his son to throw at the batters, from, behind the team bench. Sent home.

As I said above, if there is a security risk or some kind of action that could cause some kind of physical or violent confrontation, I would ask the field administrator to remove the fan. I would not go anywhere near the fans or demostratively give a fan the heave-ho. I would quitely approach the home team's head coach and tell him that the game will not continue until HE arranged for the removal of the threatening fan. I would never throw out a fan because he called me a "blind bat who just wanted to get my money and go home."

I agree.

Blind Bat

I would agree, I usually leave fans alone. But whenever they start cussing at me, see ya.

You are much more generous than I here
Idont care if it goes over the backstop he walks out of the box the pitch is a strike

Why???? Making up rules, are we?

OBR
6.02
(a) The batter shall take his position in the batter's box promptly when it is his time at bat. (b) The batter shall not leave his position in the batter's box after the pitcher comes to Set Position, or starts his windup. PENALTY: If the pitcher pitches, the umpire shall call "Ball" or "Strike," as the case may be.

Whoa be the player who offends mighty radwaste, for he shall invent rules to put said player in his place.

DAMN, I hate umpires that make up their own rules, especially in a case like this where they are doing it to puff out their chests.

"You are much more generous than I here
Idont care if it goes over the backstop he walks out of the box the pitch is a strike"

Does this mean you charge a penalty strike or you don't care where the pitch is actually located you will still call it a strike?

This is interesting because we had a thread here last year on "can a batter swing at a pitch if that pitch is a 'directed pitch' by an umpire?"

Rad,
Why would you call a strike if the pitch is not a strike?
His penalty is very clear - live ball, the pitch is what it is.
Are you " punishing " the batter for stepping out?
What if it is dust in his eyes, cramp, who knows?
Your statement sounded like no matter what, he gets the strike.
Just curious why you want to officiate in that manner.
I like to hear all reasoning when I read statements like the one you made.
Thanks.

On the contrary, if this was a FED game, then Radwaste has called it by the rules. Pitches are automatically strikes in FED if the batter steps out without the umpire granting time and the pitcher delivers.

your right, if it WAS.

This was legion, OBR.

Bob,
I agree with you.
But, I presumed it was OBR and thus my question concerning his decision.
If it WAS FED, than I apologize - my bad.
If it was OBR, then I am still interested why Rad feels the need to change the rules in this instance.

Sorry, I forgot that Legion normally plays by OBR. I live in one of those areas where Legion has been b@stardized and plays by FED. Then when one of our teams gets to a regional, they don't know the rules.

So in a FED game you are calling this a delay of game?

There are two possible "penalties" for stepping out of the box in FED.

1) Call the pitch a strike (what this thread is referring to)

2) Call an additional strike for delaying the game (not part of this thread)

Up until a few years ago, both were "automatic." Then, FED added the "and delays the game" wording to 7-3-1. They didn't, however, change 6-2-4d NOTE or the case plays.

So, my take on the play at hand is to call the strike no matter where the pitch was, then apply 7-3-1 "as normal" (that is, add the extra strike if the batter isn't back in the box within 20 seconds, or add the extra strike if the batter leave the box, none of the exceptions apply, and the batter delays the game -- umpire judgment).

Whoa
 

Didn't mean to come off as such a harda?? or start a firestorm.
Some things don't translate well in typing.
Legion ball in my area is played with FED rules YMMV
My thinking was that a batter abandons the box without calling time I'm enforcing Fed rule as noted above

Because my evaluator has ripped on not doing so in the past not to inflate my ego or to make up some rule


[Edited by radwaste50 on Jun 16th, 2005 at 10:04 AM]

Well . . . . . . .

That certainly explains a lot.

You have two very good reasons for making the call you made.
In order of importance:

1.) Because your evaluator wants it called that way;

2.) and because you are playing under FED rules
which dictates you call a strike.

I am glad I asked for your reasoning.
I clearly understand your call.

Thanks for clarifying.

Back to the original post. Tjones1 was correct (for OBR) and the "licensed umpire" coach was wrong (his reasoning was even wrong for FED).

My apologies as well. I was unaware there were areas of the country where AL was playing FED rules. Hadn't run across that before - I won't assume in the future.

It seems the variation in the rule sets used and local changes/use bring us endless posibilities

This expands my understanding why some fans may be confused...
not the 95% that don't know the rules, but a few of the others

Bingo!! I was wondering if anyone was going to call the second strike!! Way to be Bob!

Gentlemen, this is why I like this forum! An umpire makes a statement, other umpires ask him about it, he explains, they understand, everybody is nice and civil, there are no hurt feelings, and no name calling, there is no flaming. I know that sometimes we all don't have the same insight, I look forward to hearing others point of view. When that point is delivered in a kind and civil manner instead of the trollish manner of other forums, I now have the opportunity to learn and improve the way I work a ball game.

Thank you
Bob

So you're new to the forum, eh?

Overall you are right about this. Sometimes there can be more flames than the Human Torch can handle. Mostly not tho. This is a good place to learn.

My comment to Rad was assuming OBR as well. Here Legion wants the games called by AL rules. Most umpires do, but there are a few big dogs who want to do it the way it has always been done. A League, straight Legion rules. B and C Leagues, Federation.

There is an American Legion Rule Book. You can get it off the net. It is basically American League rules with a few mods. Most notable are Bats (FED), Blood (FED), Catcher's Equipment (FED), Collision (NCAA), and FPSR (FED/NCAA), and Ten Runs (afer 7). If someone wants to call themselves an American Legion team, play FED rules and play other American Legion teams who play FED rules I suspect they will be rudely awakened if they advance to an after season tournament. Maybe they don't plan to, I don't know.