Tlk about OOO (boogers)

[Carbide Keyman]

This is the problem that you have with coaches rating the umpires to work in state tourneys. Am I going to get a favorable rating from a coach if I make a call that he perceives to cost him a game during the season ? If I worked two or three of their games during the year and they lost all the games, just what might his rating for me be then ?

You need an independent entity to make these decisions to remove the "Good Ol' Boy " network from the equation. That doesn't mean that you will avoid situations like this, but I believe it's a big step in the right direction.

Thanks for tolerating my ramblings.


Doug

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by jicecone

Well, that confirms what we have been saying about coaches rating systems for years, useless.

But it doesn't absolve these officials from not knowing rules that were changed several years ago, especially in a very important game.

It is not useless. Coaches selecting and rating umpires is a great system for producing umpires who know how to suck up to coaches. Why should umpires study rules when studying "How to win friends and influence people" gets you ahead faster. In this case, the coaches got the predicted results. They should be happy. I am sure the coach of the winning team will select this umpire for the next year.

Peter

[jicecone]

Originally posted by His High Holiness

It is not useless. Coaches selecting and rating umpires is a great system for producing umpires who know how to suck up to coaches. Why should umpires study rules when studying "How to win friends and influence people" gets you ahead faster. In this case, the coaches got the predicted results. They should be happy. I am sure the coach of the winning team will select this umpire for the next year.

Peter

So true Peter, SO TRUE.

[David B]

Originally posted by His High Holiness

It is not useless. Coaches selecting and rating umpires is a great system for producing umpires who know how to suck up to coaches. Why should umpires study rules when studying "How to win friends and influence people" gets you ahead faster. In this case, the coaches got the predicted results. They should be happy. I am sure the coach of the winning team will select this umpire for the next year.

Peter

As usual Peter is exactly right when dealing with coaches/umpires.

The situation in our state, the head coach uses the same umpires for all of his HOME games.

The coach from our area was told, you can expect these umpires when you get to the game and they were there.

The sad thing is that the coach for the school has won numberous state titles - been coaching for at least 30 years etc. etc.,

Makes you wonder how many were legitimate and how many were skewed in his favor by his buddies.

And as an aside, when I was in TX we had the "coaches pick" system for playoffs. It never affected me, but I did see it affect other umpires in the way they handled the coaches, especially the coaches of the big schools.

Thanks
DAvid

[w_sohl]

I also don't agree with the coaches rating officials. However, in Illinois they showed us the average ratings given by officials and the average ratings given by coaches. The average from officials was not great and the ones from coaches were more middle of the road. You'll have the good 'ole boy system even with officials rating officials.

Also, comment on the validity of the state championships by one coach. I'm not sure how haveing the same officials for regular season home games has any affect on winning state titles. Once the tourney comes around the state assigns the officials to games and the schools don't get to pick and his team still has to beat other teams that are just a qualified to be there once they get to that level.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by w_sohl
I also don't agree with the coaches rating officials. However, in Illinois they showed us the average ratings given by officials and the average ratings given by coaches. The average from officials was not great and the ones from coaches were more middle of the road. You'll have the good 'ole boy system even with officials rating officials.

I would expect this to be correct. The officials would most likely be tougher on rating the officials than the coaches.

Also, the criteria used would more likely be based upon mechanics, rule knowledge, professionalism, uniform, hustle, etc. Not so much on winning and losing, or a judgemental decision. Which you know affects the final ratings by coaches.

[His High Holiness]

Originally posted by w_sohl

Also, comment on the validity of the state championships by one coach. I'm not sure how haveing the same officials for regular season home games has any affect on winning state titles. Once the tourney comes around the state assigns the officials to games and the schools don't get to pick and his team still has to beat other teams that are just a qualified to be there once they get to that level.

OK, since you asked for a comment.

When coaches can select the umpires for their regular season games, they get three advantages going into the post season and beyond.

1. They gain momentum. A winning season produces confidence that carries over into the post season. Also, in my state, the first few rounds of the post season are played within the district.

2. Umpires that get a lot of games in the good ole boy system usually have influence with the administrators upstairs doing the selections for post season. Since the administrators usually need input for selecting umpires, guess where they go to get it?

3. Winning the regular season causes parents to move their kids into your district. On paper, they transfer the star players addresses (or custody) into a school district with a good team. This is an ongoing problem in basketball and football where I live, although not such a big problemn in baseball. Winning teams get more scouts and more scouts produce more athletic scholarships. Winning produces more winning year after year as parents figure out where the winners are and work the system accordingly.

Peter

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by jicecone


I would expect this to be correct. The officials would most likely be tougher on rating the officials than the coaches.

That is not at all true (at least where I live). We have a coaches rating system, but it is combined with official's ratings as well. It was found that officials were busy pumping up fellow officials ratings and not being more honest as the coaches. Now coaches of course have biases, but so did officials. The rating system was even changed because officials were not giving ratings based on ability, but not wanting to hurt fellow officials.

Originally posted by jicecone
Also, the criteria used would more likely be based upon mechanics, rule knowledge, professionalism, uniform, hustle, etc. Not so much on winning and losing, or a judgemental decision. Which you know affects the final ratings by coaches.

Our state did a study on what were the reasons coaches gave for their ratings. Our ratings are submitted over the internet and many questions are asked before the rating can be completed. The IHSA office found out that the differences between winning coach and losing coaches were decimal points. Coaches that were losing were not just screwing officials because they had lost. Coaches were not just giving good ratings because a coach won either. Officials on the other hand would give good ratings regardless of their ability or their rank.

The problem with any system is there are flaws. Even in the NFL where there are constant evaluations, the officials are not completely happy with the evaluation system that is in place. Officials in the NFL are downgraded for bad play and they are never credited for making good plays. So the objective is to avoid bad plays (which are the evaluatorÂ’s opinion) and they never gain anything from making good plays. So the only thing you know about an official or crew is the number of bad plays they have made. I can tell you that officials in the NFL have expressed concern. I have heard of similar systems in the NBA and MLB. I do know some of that is changing at least in the NBA. These systems that they pros use are how officials are picked for post season games. In our state ratings is just one of about 6 different factors to come up with a power rating. Then other factors are considered as well. The current system is a lot better than what it was. It used to start and end with coach's recommendations and then the state took the recommendations and made their assignments. All that information was all a secret and you had no idea why you would get assignments. At least know we have a very good idea.


Peace