My son's team was playing in a USSSA tournament this weekend. The umpires were being very nit-picky to begin with. Example, there was no base coach chalk line to indicate where he had to stand, but our coach got warned in 2 different innings rudely by the umpire. But when the hometown coach was out on the field standing in the same spots, nothing was said.

But, one of the board members (again, playing a hometown team) came to our dugout in the last inning as we were playing defense to tell the coach that he needed to put his count indicator away or else he would be ejected! We have 2 coaches keeping track with one, just in case! He said it was illegal, is that true? I've been to alot of games and seen alot of things, but this is way off the charts. We talked to the tournament director after the game was over and he was even surprised and apologized. I approached the man who rudely talked to our coach (my husband) and told him I wanted to see the set of rules that stated it was illegal. He didn't have any of course, but he said they go by 3 different sets of rules: USSSA, OSSAA (Oklahoma Secondary School Activities) and Major League. The tournament was advertised as a USSSA tournament, didn't know there were 2 other rules that we had to abide by also! I have searched all 3 sites and cannot find it anywhere. Does anyone know? Or is this totally off the wall to you too?

Reply would be appreciated! Thanks...

I have never seen a coach with an indicator, and would not care if I did. I have never seen the word "indicator" in any rule book. Sounds like an overly official offical (OOO) to me.

The FED rule is rather specific...

I haven't got my books but it seems like a scorebook or a PDA (to keep score/batters count) are allowed. I don't believe an indicatorclickertingymabob is specifically mentioned.

But I'm thinking that an indicatorclickertingymabob in the hands of a coach is exactly the right place... :D

Don't know about USSSA rules but they are probably similar.

But I'm with the camp that feels "Who in the heck cares?"

If it's baseball related, it's legal. Scorebook, indicator, whatever. It sounds to me like you were "home-towned".

Bob

twest,
Welcome to the forum.

Coaches with indicators? Fine with me; I need all the help I can get.
mick

Give him a brush so he can sweep off the pitcher's rubber and the bases also.

As an assignor, I have had to listen to the complaints about officials for years. The home team has one version of the story, the visitors another, and the umpires a third. It is like they are talking about 3 different games. Almost never do I get the whole story from any one party.

I wonder what the WHOLE story is here. I am willing to bet that you did not tell it.

Peter

I wonder if the team advanced, what the scores were, and if team didn't advance, did they get "homered". I think I have an idea of all of the above answers, but would like to be sure. Scores would be helpful in this pursuit.

I'm siding with Peter on this one. I don't think we're getting the whole story.

I suspect it was more along the line, "Hey blue. What do you mean Ball 3? I'm showing it should have been two strikes!" or "Hey blue. Does your indicator have the same numbers on it that mine does?

Jerry

Read again - it was not even the umpire who mentioned the indiclickercounterpacifier. It was some random board member, who probably has absolutely no authority during a tourney. Love it when board members get involved during a game.

Reminds me of a PeeWee football game last year, where as we're setting up for the next play Ref and I (HL) hear the Linesman yell, "GET OFF THE FIELD!" We look over, and someone is approaching the referee from behind trying to tell us we are calling something wrong. Ref throws his flag, blows his whistle, and tells him again to get off the field. "But I'm a board member!" "No, sir. You are now an ejected fan. You need to leave the facility."

We actually had to get Field Admin (who, uncomfortably for him, actually reported to this Board Member in his real job) to remove him from the facility.

PS - I, too, feel like we have about 1/3 of the story here.

Fed Rule states
 

3-3-1
A coach, player, substitute, attendant or other bench personnel shall not...

i. have any object in his possession in the coach's box other than a rule book, scorebook, a Personal Digital Assitant (PDA) or comparable electronic score-recording device which shall be used for scorekeeping purposes only;

So... Overly Officious Official may technically be correct... but as others have said here, as long as it's not a megaphone with an indicator taped to the side "Who cares?"

Tony,
The coaches using the indicators were on defense and in the dugout.
Jerry

Jerry, I got the impression the coaches were using them on offense, and were warned by the overly-ambitious board member when they got back to their dugout.

But neither is specifically stated, so either of us could be right.

I've often used an indicator just so I can keep track of the count. I don't use it to try to disagree with the officials.

It has much to do with the level of play also. I just like to know so I can tell Johnny there are two outs and run on a fly or more specific Billy has two strikes, Johnny be ready to go.

I now use a PDA but not when I'm coaching a base. Too much to do.

To mcrowder:
The original post said the coaches were in the dugout and their team was on defense . . .

"But, one of the board members (again, playing a hometown team) came to our dugout in the last inning as we were playing defense to . . ."

Jerry

Don't you just love that phrase, "...but I'm on the board."

One "board member" tried to bend the rules (he was a coach) to suit his team DURING a game. When I told him he was incorrect, he gave me the catch phrase. My response was "I don't care what you're on, the rule is maximum six runs an inning." This was the same guy who wanted infield fly on a foul ball. His son turned out okay, I called his game a few weeks back. Fortunately his father/coach isn't in the dugout any more.

Peter's Perspectiv
 

I just wanted to reiterate what Peter stated in his post. It is always hard to tell exactly what has occurred at games when you get three different perspectives. Never has this been so true for me as it has this year. The Babe Ruth league my son moved to this year was lacking a(n?) UIC this year so I stepped up. The first part of the season (called our pre-season), we use all volunteer umpires. The real season we use the local association. It didn't seem to matter whether we were using volunteer or paid, I still have the same issues coming up in comments from parents, coaches, players AND umpires. AMAZING! The worst situation arose when, of course, I wasn't at that particular game. That evening, I got an earful from both teams' coaches about the plate umpire for that game. Apparently, both sides were unimpressed by his game management skills. So, being an umpire and having worked with these people, I know how they are. And, being an umpire and knowing how one can be exasperated at times, I knew how an umpire may possibly react. This is how I handled it (and it relates to how one might possibly handle an umpire that APPEARS to be an OOO, as in the indicator issue). I called the assignor for the association and told him first of all that I wasn't there, but it appears there was this issue (I won't get into it...too long already). I told him I don't know for sure how the umpire handled it as all information I have is second-hand and hearsay. However, in the future, if this issue arises again, here is how I would like to see it handled...and I gave him very specific instructions to provide the umpires that worked at our park (most of them familiar with proper proticol, which is the same for most, if not all baseball programs). I backed it up in writing with an e-mail and I made it very clear that I was neither implicating his umpire nor exonerating our people that were involved. I simply didn't know. This way, I could tell our board that I handled it, even though all I did was reiterate common proticol to the assignor, who knew most, if not all, of his umpires were aware of. If, indeed, this particular umpire was an OOO, then his association could handle it.

The Rest of the Story
 

If Peter wants to hear the rest of the story, he's going to be reading for a long time. The moral of the story is, I just want to know if it's actually legal or not. Alot of the messages posted were missing the whole point of my post.

Thank you for the one who stated it had nothing to do with an umpire on the 'clicker'. I didn't know what the heck it's called so I went to search for Umpire equipment and that was the official name "Indicator". So that was the search name I used on the PDFs that I found on USSSA and Major League.

It was a jack### board member who came over from the concession stand area to tell our coach (our kids were on defense) to put the clicker away or he would be ejected. The coaches just keep track of the count and outs so they will know what to do when for the kids. Not to argue with the umpires when we only have 3 balls and it should be 4, etc. Although sometimes it could very important to argue in a gametime situation! But, the homebook is always official anyway.

So, again, does ANYONE know of any rule stating it is ILLEGAL for a coach to have a 'clicker' on the field or on the dugout at anytime. In that case, is it wrong for a parent/fan is not allowed to have one either? Give me a break!

Please let me know, I appreciate the input so far!

Re: The Rest of the Story
 

There is no such rule. BTW, the plate umpire has the official count, NOT the home book.

Re: The Rest of the Story
 

If you are doing OBR, there is nothing wrong with someone other than the umpires using an indicator. If you are doing FED, it's stepping over the line by the rules. Would I call it in a FED game - no I wouldn't.

Now, under either rule, long as the coach doesn't refer to the indicator that he is carrying, we are okay. Some will argue, using the indicator is the same as using a scorebook. If a coach comes to me with his scorebook I wil talk with him. If he comes to me with an indicator, I don't know him from a hole in the wall.

ozzy,

Why I am shocked! I thought FED rules explicitly allowed it, assuming he's not sharing it or anything.

Then it's Personal, it's certainly Digital (I've never seen an <i>analog</i> indicator), and it's Assisting him in keeping track of the counts and outs. Hence, a PDA. Rule doesn't say it has to be <i>electronic</i> or anything.

Coaching a game over the weekend, our team at bat. Our batter fouls one that eludes the catcher and hits the PU somewhere in the hip area. He had taken one earlier in the game right in the chest and didn't even flinch. This one got him - I could tell immediately.

I immediately requested "TIME" (coaching 3B at the time) and went to talk to my batter about nothing for a minute or two while the umpire walks it off.

Next pitch, the batter swings and misses and the umpire indicates the count at 2 & 2. I was pretty sure it had been strike three on my batter. So were the opposing coaches (PU was solo for this game). They ask for time & appeal the count. I check with my scorekeeper & he's got strike three as well. Although I believe this is against protocol, I went and joined the conversation and let the umpire know he wasn't going to get any objection from us if he changed the count to strike three. He was still trying to recover from the shot he'd taken on the foul (which was strike two) - aparently he'd taken a shot in the same unproteted spot in a game a few days earlier and it was pretty unpleasant.

All I'm saying is in <b>some</b> cases it's not such a bad thing for a coach to have the count.

JM

Yer a keeper, CoachJM.

Re: Re: The Rest of the Story
 

Could you cite the rule you're referring to?

Thanks.

First time I have heard an indicator described as a PDA, and it will not wash, because we all know what a PDA is. Technically, FED would not allow an indicator in the hands of a base coach, because it's not mentioned as one of the things a base coach can have. But I can't imagine anyone who would care if the coach had an indicator. And of course, the original situation was about a coach in the dugout with an indicator and no FED rule I am aware of would prevent that, just like a pitch counter is not mentioned and often used in the dugout.

The Rule
 

The rule we are discussing is whether or not a coach can have a count 'clicker' in the dugout or on the field at anytime.

A board member at our last USSSA tournament came to our dugout in the last inning of our game and told our coach he had to put the clicker up or be ejected. I told that man he better show me in the rules where that was because we had NEVER heard such a thing in our life! Our kids were on the field in defense, not batting.

The man said after the game that he could've been ejected so it states in the rules. Well he then preceded to tell me that they went by not 1, but 3 different rules. OSSAA (Oklahoma Secondary School Activities), USSSA AND Major League! The tournament was listed and advertised as USSSA tournament. We live in Northern Oklahoma. We have never heard of FED or anything like what some are talking about. I think the guy was just being a real @$$.

Thanks for all your input, now I don't feel like I raised such a stink over nothing!

TW

Re: The Rule
 

stupidist thing I've heard in a long time.

Let's see, that would be the same as a coach having his cell phone on his belt or what about the stop watch in the back pocket.

None of those are listed as items to have, but then there is not a rule against them either.

Good umpires would simply ignore them and concentrate on the game.

In your situation, the board member did not know what he was talking about, under any rule codes.

Thanks
David

Re: Re: The Rule
 

No, you are wrong.

The Federation lists objects which a person in the coach's box can have, and all objects not on the list are not allowed.

That is very clear if you read 3-3-1H

Re: Re: Re: The Rest of the Story
 

FED 3-3-1i is the appropriate rule.
3-3-1 A coach, player, substitutem, attendant or any other bench personnel shall not:

i - have any object in his posession in the coach's box other tnan a stop watch. rule book, scorebook, a Personal Digital Assistant (PDA) or comparable electronic score-recording device which shall be used for scorekeeping purposes only.

************************************************** ********
Notice that after it says PDA it says comparable electronic score-recording device. That does not include your standard issue indicator. So as I stated, in FED, if a coach is using an indicator in the coach's box, he is over the line by rule. But again, I'm not going to say anything as long as he doesn't use this device to argue. If the coach comes to me and questions whether it is ball 4 or not, as long as he doesn't refer to the indicator, he's okay (in my opinion).

A smart coach will keep the indicator out of sight but a problem may arise if the opposing coach sees it and makes a complaint. Then the coach will have to lose the indicator while he is in the coach's box.

As far as using an indicator in the dugout, what is the problem? Again, as long as they don't use the indicator to question or argue, there shouldn't be a problem.

I think that it is a coach's duty to know the count so he can direct his team. This also keeps him from constantly asking "What's the count, Blue?" after I've given the count verbally and on the hands (bozo's)!

It seems most have missed your point here.
There is NO rule prohibiting anyone " in the dugout " from using an indicator.
NONE.
Hopefully that answers your question.
The rest of the input is " also " information and not germaine to your question.

You did modify it somewhat by saying " or anywhere on the field ". It is illegal to have one in the coach's box. ( Rule was already cited for you. )

Who in the world is going to make that call??????



Also, FYI, FED is National Federation of High Schools which governs high school athletics and their rules in the United States. Most local associations use some form of their rules in all sports and nearly ALL high schools adhere to FED rules completely.

[Edited by officialtony on Jun 7th, 2005 at 08:30 AM]

coach - the rule DOES say electronic. Nice attempted stretch though.

Original Poster - it's not illegal in the dugout (and it's only ticky-tack illegal in the box). And I'd suggest that the next time a board member approaches you during a game, you kindly remind him that you have a game to coach and that he has no authority during a game. His inventing of rules to you was highly inappropriate, and even if he was correct (which he wasn't), he had absolutely no business communicating rules or procedures to you (or issuing threats or warnings about ejections to you) during a game.

This board members needs to be reported to his board.

twest,

there is no national USSSA rule that prohibits an indicator/clicker/thingy...

OSSAA is the Oklahoma organization that oversees HS athletics. It is a member of the National Federation of State High School Associations. Their rulebook is commonly referred to as "FED"

Major League rules are officially called the Official Rules of Baseball or OBR.

USSSA uses OBR as it's base set of rules. However, they have adopted some of the FED rules specific to safety. In addition, USSSA has published national rules on it's website, http://www.usssabaseball.com.

My suggestion, FWIW, chalk this one up to stupid board members. Always ask the tournament director about any tournament rules. Come play ball in Northwest Arkansas. You get a quality tournament and umpires that can work.

[Edited by jumpmaster on Jun 7th, 2005 at 09:15 AM]

Re: The Rest of the Story
 

Your anger and hostility to the "jacka$$" is telling. I am still betting that we do not have the real story. The version that you have related is idiotic on its face. In the absence of the instigating circumstances, no one comes over from a concession stand to a dugout to tell someone to put an indicator away.

There is a pi$$ing contest here that you have not told us about. I would bet money that your husband played as idiotic a role in this contest as the board member that came over and got on a high horse about indicators. Please enlighten us on the instigating role that your husband played to get this farce rolling. I'll bet he was just as much of an idiot as the board member who was up in arms about indicators.

Peter

I agree with Peter's Osborne's assessment in that there is more to the story.

<i> Originally posted by twest </i>

<b> My son's team was playing in a USSSA tournament this weekend. The umpires were being very nit-picky to begin with. Example, there was no base coach chalk line to indicate where he had to stand, but our coach got warned in 2 different innings rudely by the umpire. But when the hometown coach was out on the field standing in the same spots, nothing was said. </b>

Forget about a chalk line as IMO that's irrelevant. During Tournaments, Umpires are instructed to be nit-picky and for very good reasons. Since we are dealing with teams from "all over the place" we want to keep control of the game.

There was probably a good reason why your coach got warned which we are not privy to in your thread.

<b> But, one of the board members (again, playing a hometown team) came to our dugout in the last inning as we were playing defense to tell the coach that he needed to put his count indicator away or else he would be ejected! </b>

First off the UMPIRES NOT ANYONE else has control of the game, meaning the BOD person cannot EJECT anyone in the PLAYING FIELD. He can ask a FAN to leave but that is Outside the diamond not inside. So the aforementioned statement by you is where IMO it gets <b> shaky </b>

Forget about the indicator, the only ones allowed in the dugout are coaches and players - PERIOD. When you say "he came to our dugout" my gut feeling is that the BOD member came to the "dugout area" which is a BIG difference, because the umpire if he saw someone other than the Coaches and Players in the dugout would have or should have instructed the BOD member to leave.

Bottom line in my opinion there's a "History" that we do not know about.

Your thread is not about rules governing indicators but a problem with a BOD member.

Pete Booth

[Edited by PeteBooth on Jun 7th, 2005 at 10:12 AM]

I personally don't mind a coach having an indicator; I view it the same as a scorebook, which they are allowed to have in the coaches box. These are tools to keep track of the game.

Someone was quoting FED rules and did anyone notice that a pen or pencil wasn't on the allowed list?!? Are we going to be an OOO and force the coach to put his writing instrument away too?

I've had coaches question the count; I'll check with my partner and adjust it if I was wrong.

A coach can argue the count just the same, with or without an indicator, and he gets the same leeway in an arguement, with or without an indicator - slim to none. His behavior dictates my level of response, not a scorebook or indicator in his hand.

I 'd like to be there!
 

For the ejection of the coach that has something in the box not allowed.

Let's see, someone mentioned a pencil, what about sunglasses? Cell phone I've mentioned before?

I know the rules - this is simply not something that should be or needs to be enforced unless a coach is gaining some type of advantage.

Like do I even look at the coach to see what's he got in his "possession".

Thanks
David

Coach?
 

Where's a coach?

If I hadn't seen it move, I would have thought it was a fence post.
:D

And,
 

I agree with Peter. We are getting a "fan's side only."

Bet there was lots more to the story.

Re: And,
 

I too agree with HHH and Pete B. Especially HHH. I believe he hit it out of the park with his assessment. Funny how my question about results of the games, etc. in an effort to get the rest of the story, went unanswered.

Re: Re: The Rest of the Story
 

Peter:
1st - you COULD be right. Nothing suprises me any more.
HOWEVER: I also think you may be so far/ so long removed from the "lower" youth-ball trenches that you are looking to read in something that ain't necessarily there.

She's pi$$y about the umpiring; OK, that's a red flag: but the "rest of the story" on the coach's indiclicker is right there in plain sight:

A "host" BOARD MEMBER [not one of the game umpires] took it upon him/herself to tell a visiting coach to do something, on pain of ejection. Why would one need to believe that there is more to the story than that, or particularly that the visiting coach was somehow an instigator/ co-participant in such foolishness?

"Board Members" are a common, unrelieved pain in the posterior, when it comes to thinking that their administrative position entitles them to be heard about what is happening as the game is played. It would also not suprise me to discover that the home-boys called in the Board member for this precise interference upon failing to obtain satisfaction from the game umpires.

I once had a "Board Member" [actually he was the Division Commissioner] walk onto my field from the concession stand [I later discovered that he had been sent for by a coach] to tell me I was incorrectly allowing a starting pitcher to return to the mound.

[FWIW: team A had only 9 players; starting F1 switched w/ F7 at the beginning of an inning (no visits); then, 2 innings later switched back. Perfectly legal under the published rules. The fight was over whether there had been a "substitution" for the starter. CB= Kid was never off the field: no sub. Wasn't removed from the mound by rule-req's: he can come back/ switch x1 per inning, by rule.]

This was NOT a tournament w/ "resolve it on the field" protest rules: regular season U10 game. I could not get this guy to understand, nor could I get him to leave voluntarily w/o me buying his [incorrect] ruling: so I ejected him. :D BTW, this was during the period when I was allowing my "inner Stalin" free rein. :D:D:D

And, the "rest of the story" in my case: I still [occasionally] do ball for this league; and am on good and cordial terms with the fellow I ejected.

"Cinderella story...18th hole at Augusta.....IT'S IN THE HOLE!!"
Paraphrasing Bill Murray -- "Caddyshack"

HHH is probably right about the rest of the story, but it's interesting to me that he has assumed the poster to be a woman (ie "your husband"), when the only clue in the original post was "my son's team". While I noticed this, I probably would not notice if a coach had an indicator.

Um....
Actually she says "our coach (my husband)" in the 6th sentence of the second paragraph of the original post of this thread. In any case my guess is that even if you had seen the indicator, you wouldn't "notice" it.

And aren't both of you being homophobic to assume the this is a man-woman marriage. The writer could be gay, you know? That could have been what touched this incident off. The board member was engaged in a form of gay bashing. :D And that's the rest of the story.

You want the whole story? Get Ready!
 

Hello All who has contributed to my simple little question:

1. The night I found this little message board was the night we had this little problem with the clicker. It was a Sunday night about 11:30 pm, I had been out in the sun all day with the temp being about 95. I was hot and tired and pi$$y! I had to be at work at 8 am the next day and I really didn't feel like typing the whole story, but if Peter insists on the whole thing, here ya go!

2. I am the wife of the coach so mentioned in the previous story also a very upset fan who didn't appreciate being treated unfairly to the opposing home team. My husband is not gay, good observation though!

3. We played this team in pool play the day before, but got it called off because of storms. They scored 8 runs on us in the first inning. It wasn't looking good. We switched pitchers and caught on to some tricks that the opposing 3rd base coach was doing. These are 14 yr old boys, keep in mind. We are a league team, not a hand picked team like alot are. Their 3rd base coach would wait until our pitcher was getting ready to release the ball and would yell things like "GO GO GO, OR NOW NOW NOW!" And no one would even be on base. Well, what are we in kindergarten? So, my husband, head coach, goes and talks to the head umpire behind the plate about it. (not the same umpire as the next day). He stated that he had been doing it all year long in their league and nothing could be done about it. Well, so then our kids started yelling out the pitch that the opposing pitcher was going to pitch to try to get back at them. This was about 4th inning and we finally got on the board with 2 runs (8-2 now) with 2 on base when they called the game because of storms coming in. So we thought we would be able to finish the game out the next day, but it didn't happen that way. We were told we could only finish out the inning and we already had 1 out, so we forfeited the game. It was only pool play, so coaches made the decision to save our kids having to play in the heat.

4. Next day, we played out another pool play game and won. Since the forfeit, we were already seeded. We were to play the same team from the day before that was beating us 8-2 for the semi-final game. The winner goes to the championship. First inning out, (we were visitors) we scored 3 runs.

This is what I think got it started, we were beating them 3-2 for 2 innings. "We scored 8 runs on them the day before, why are they beating us now? So let's do something about it!" So, my guess is they coach said something to the ump about our coach to start some trouble. When our coach, my husband, goes out to coach 3rd base in the 3rd inning, the umpire (1st time we had this ump) says he was stepping out of the coach's box. So, he asks, 'Where is it? There is no chalk line?' So he takes a few steps back and forth whatever, until the ump is satisfied.

Fine, well, the opposing team's coach of 3rd base goes out (same one yelling stuff in the 1st game). He is standing in the exact same spot that my husband was. So we were letting the ump know about it (the moms). Nothing ever said by ump. Then the next inning, the ump again says that my husband is standing out of the box, so he smartly stands in the dirt of the baseline 1 ft from the bag and the ump goes on. So, I got up and went to find the tournament director. I told him the situation and he said he would watch to find out what was going on. Nothing happened while he was standing there, but while I had gotten up, the umpire was the telling our kids they couldn't step out of the box to get a sign! Everytime they stepped out, he would say, GET BACK IN THE BOX!. By this time we were down 4-3 and only about 20 mins left in the game. We didn't score any, and we weren't home, so we knew we weren't going to win by this time.

When the opposing team came up to bat, nothing was ever said to their kids about wasting time. We knew that's what they were doing because each kid took time to do something unneccessary like, take helmet off and clean glasses, untie and tie their shoes. The umpire NEVER made them hurry up and tell them to GET BACK IN THE BOX! Like he did ours. So, it was totally called unfair from the beginning of the game.

So, with about 10 minutes to go, that is when this board member who was apparantly 'head of the umpires' came INTO OUR DUGOUT (for the one who thought he didn't) got 4 inches from my husbands nose and 'talked loudly' to tell him in front of our 3 bench players and 2 other coaches that he could not have the 'clicker' in the dugout and if he didn't put it away, he would be ejected. One of the mom's was standing next to the dugout when he said it, so there were lots of witnesses. My husband said, "you saw me clear from the concession stand with this in my hand and you had to walk all the way over here to tell me." He said "yep and if you don't put it away, you will be ejected!" Coach said, "well that's a new one on me! I've been coaching for 15 yrs and I've NEVER heard of such a thing!" He said, "it's illegal, now put it away" and he walked off.

A few minutes later, the game was over and when I found out what that man had said to my husband, I was out to find him myself. First, I found the tournament director. We told him what happened. He apologized and said he would take care of it and he had never heard of such a thing either. We said we enjoyed playing at their facility, but it would be the last time because of the way we were treated by the umpires and the board member.

A few minutes later I had words with the umpire. He said your coach needed to cool it. And I said "If you are going to be nitpicky about where our coach stands you better call it both ways and make a chalk line next time." He didn't have much to say after that and walked away. We saw the tournament director talking to the umpire about it because he said he watched and in no way was the way our coach was standing was it interfering with the way the kids were playing baseball.

So then finally the little man/board member emerged from the concession stand. He hid out in there for about 20 mins, probably hoping we had left. The tournament director gets him out and is standing about 3 inches from his face chewing on him about something. We knew it had to be about our problem. But after about 5 mins on the @ss chewing, he walked directly to me and said that had nothing to do with the "Tonkawa" problem (our team). I said that I wanted to talk to that man personally and he told me that he was through talking to us about our problem and that if our coach wanted to talk to him (board member) he could, but I couldn't. So about that time, another team mom walked up to him (director) to complain about a 12 & under problem. One of their fans had just been ejected when he asked for his son's home run ball! Don't know what the whole story was, but it sounded a little outrageous to us!

So in the meantime, I found Mr. Board Member and said "Why don't you look up that 'clicker rule' you just made up in the rule books. He said "Your coach could've been ejected for having it in the dugout or out on the field". I said, show me the rule because that is ridiculous!" He said, I don't have them, but we go by 3 rules. I said "what are they, because I'm going to look it up". That's when he said USSSA, OSSAA and Major League. I said I'd be going home to find out. I shouldn't have let him off the hook until he showed me in his rule books where it was because it was stupid and made no sense at all.

We started to walk off and people were just lining up to complain to that tournament director about something. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the last time he does that!

There, is that enough for you Peter? That is the WHOLE STORY. Nothing left out....

As for the Northwest Arkansas guy, we LOVED playing in Bentonville. We have no complaints from our national tournament last year, plus, the country is beautiful! I wouldn't mind moving there! :-) We'd like to go again this year!

Tisha West

Damn, I missed that part. Thanks.

I am absolutely appalled by this topic and this language. And why would anyone want something to "indicate" such a thing? You should all be ashamed of yourselves, I mean....oh, wait. Oh, COUNT. I get it. Nevermind.

Thank you Twest, for taking the time to give us the details.

twest I would be interested in where the games were played as I know a couple blues that love to take part of a sentence in the rule book and twist it around a couple times to make their own "correct" interpetations. If you wish, email me on it.

JFC,People wonder why I don't do baseball any more.
One interesting thing comes to mind. If you get the "UIC" indicator from Honig's, it is by gawd electronic and I suppose you can have THAT in the coaches box.