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Old Tue May 31, 2005, 03:07pm
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Had the following happen at a tourney this weekend.

15U using -3 bats. Leadoff batter used a -5 bat. Struck out first time through, so no one appealed. 3rd inning with two outs and two on, the same batter with the same bat walks. Coach appeals the bat, and the batter is called out, ending the inning. Opposing coach argues that the player was walked and did not gain the base from a hit with the bat.

Both officials discussed the situation for a few minutes and upheld the ruling.

I assume it is correct, but I've never seen an appeal of an illegal bat with a walk. Can someone point me to some references?
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Old Tue May 31, 2005, 03:37pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by PGCougar
Had the following happen at a tourney this weekend.

15U using -3 bats. Leadoff batter used a -5 bat. Struck out first time through, so no one appealed. 3rd inning with two outs and two on, the same batter with the same bat walks. Coach appeals the bat, and the batter is called out, ending the inning. Opposing coach argues that the player was walked and did not gain the base from a hit with the bat.

Both officials discussed the situation for a few minutes and upheld the ruling.

I assume it is correct, but I've never seen an appeal of an illegal bat with a walk. Can someone point me to some references?
OBR 6.06(d) works for me.
6.06
"A batter is out for illegal action when (d)He uses or attempts to use a bat that, in the umpire's judgment, has been altered or tampered with in such a way to improve the distance factor or cause an unusual reaction on the baseball."

He attempted to use the bat, even though he walked.

Now OBR doesn't have -5 or BESR or any other requirement. OBR doesn't consider aluminum bats either, since they are illegal in Pro Ball. So you have to use this rule for illegal bats that have been described in Rule 1 of your leagues Rules.
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Old Tue May 31, 2005, 03:38pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by PGCougar
Had the following happen at a tourney this weekend.

15U using -3 bats. Leadoff batter used a -5 bat. Struck out first time through, so no one appealed. 3rd inning with two outs and two on, the same batter with the same bat walks. Coach appeals the bat, and the batter is called out, ending the inning. Opposing coach argues that the player was walked and did not gain the base from a hit with the bat.

Both officials discussed the situation for a few minutes and upheld the ruling.

I assume it is correct, but I've never seen an appeal of an illegal bat with a walk. Can someone point me to some references?
After the first at bat why wasn't the bat removed from the game?
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Old Tue May 31, 2005, 03:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by gordon30307
After the first at bat why wasn't the bat removed from the game?
No one said anything after the strike-out in the first at-bat. I guess the manager thought he'd wait for a more opportune moment to bring it to the official's attention. Since no one noticed it, the lead-off batter used it for his second at-bat.
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Old Tue May 31, 2005, 04:01pm
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If the umpires didn't notice and no one complained his first AB, then how does anyone know that he used it the first time? This sounds a bit odd.

There's no rule in OBR that says a bat not meeting certain specifications results in an out. Take the bat out of the game and warn both teams that further use of illegal bats will result in ejections.

If the umpire inspected the bats prior to the game and someone hid this bat and pulled it out after the inspections, then perhaps eject the player for unsportsmanlike conduct.
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Old Tue May 31, 2005, 04:34pm
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Cool

PCCougar,

You did not say what the "foundation" rule code is that the games were being played under - FED or OBR. This is material to your question, because the rule and penalty are quite different between the two.

OBR makes a material disctinction between an illegal bat and an altered bat. An illegal bat is one that is "out of spec". The penalty for use of such bat is simply the removal of the bat from the game once discovered by the umpire. Any previous use of the bat stands as if the bat were legal.

An altered bat is one that has been "modified" or "tampered with" in an intent to (presumably) give the batter an advantage by making the bat more effective in hitting the ball or hitting it harder. If such a bat is used (and discovered) any result advantageous to the offense that results from the batter becoming a runner while using the altered bat are nullified, while any outs obtained on the play by the defense stand. The batter is called out (whether or not he was out on the play) and is ejected from the game.

FED does not make the distinction between "altered" and "illegal" - if it's out of spec., it's illegal whether it was modified after leaving the manufacturer or not. In FED, if a batter completes his at bat while using an illegal bat, and the defense appeals before the next pitch or play, the defense has the option of taking the results of the play or the penalty for use of an illegal bat. That is, the batter is out, any runners return to their TOP base, and any outs obtained on the play are nullified.

FED also has the notion of a "defective" bat (e.g. dented, cracked) - when discovered, it is removed from play and any prior actions with the bat stand.

JM
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Old Tue May 31, 2005, 04:45pm
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As Coach says, removal of the bat is the correct OBR penalty. I suggested ejections for further violations because in my experience using an illegal bat once is often the result of a mistake, but continued use of such bats in a game is done so in an attempt to cheat.
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Old Tue May 31, 2005, 09:41pm
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Thanks folks!

The tourney was supposed to be played with OBR and several modifications, namely time limit rules. The bat size was clearly stated as -3. The officials did not conduct an equipment check before the game.
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Old Tue May 31, 2005, 10:41pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by CoachJM
PCCougar,

You did not say what the "foundation" rule code is that the games were being played under - FED or OBR. This is material to your question, because the rule and penalty are quite different between the two.

OBR makes a material disctinction between an illegal bat and an altered bat. An illegal bat is one that is "out of spec". The penalty for use of such bat is simply the removal of the bat from the game once discovered by the umpire. Any previous use of the bat stands as if the bat were legal.

An altered bat is one that has been "modified" or "tampered with" in an intent to (presumably) give the batter an advantage by making the bat more effective in hitting the ball or hitting it harder. If such a bat is used (and discovered) any result advantageous to the offense that results from the batter becoming a runner while using the altered bat are nullified, while any outs obtained on the play by the defense stand. The batter is called out (whether or not he was out on the play) and is ejected from the game.

FED does not make the distinction between "altered" and "illegal" - if it's out of spec., it's illegal whether it was modified after leaving the manufacturer or not. In FED, if a batter completes his at bat while using an illegal bat, and the defense appeals before the next pitch or play, the defense has the option of taking the results of the play or the penalty for use of an illegal bat. That is, the batter is out, any runners return to their TOP base, and any outs obtained on the play are nullified.

FED also has the notion of a "defective" bat (e.g. dented, cracked) - when discovered, it is removed from play and any prior actions with the bat stand.

JM
In FED you can also declare a batter out for entering the box with an illegal bat.
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