OBR: Bottom of the ninth...home team at bat...down by one run...two outs...R2, R3. Bloop base hit to shallow left field. Ball drops and R2, R3 easily score. While rounding first the BR misses first base because F1 is standing in the middle of it. After a long round and seeing that F6 now has the ball the BR tries to get back to first and the subsequent throw ends up in the dugout. Having seen the ball enter the dugout and hearing the umpire shout 'dead ball you third base'...the BR proceeds to head to the dugout as he thinks the game is over. The visiting manager comes out to argue the call and says that they should be allowed to appeal that the runner missed first. Tell me step by step what you are going to say (rule book terminology) and do.

My 2 cents


Was the obstruction called or is it just your opinion? I don't think it matters because, now that the ball is dead, he has to tag the base before he goes to third anyhow.

Even if you call him out for abandonment they can still appeal the miss.

Now, if any one of the infielders or the pitcher has not crossed the foul line, they can appeal.


"OK Coach - get your pitcher on the mound and we'll put the ball in play."

Total agreement that the runner here needs to touch 1B since he has the opportunity to correct his error---even if the miss was intially caused by an obstruction. His unobstructed return attempt to 1B warrants his need to touch the base to eliminate appeal of the miss. The throw to 1B by F6 should not be considered an obvious appeal of a missed base since retiring BR after touching 1B could also be considered as a potential timing play to retire BR before R2 touches the plate.

The only other comment, Rich, is that I'd not in anyway consider an abandonment call under the game situation described. The scoring of the two lead runners with 2 out eliminates the need for BR to carryout acceptance of his reward.


Just my opinion,

Freix

"If a runner misses a base because of obstruction, an appeal of his miss of such base cannot be upheld". R2 easily scored so there is no reason for B1 to advance, thus no reason for him to miss 1B, even if F3 is standing on it since all he has to do is touch it. So I don't think we have an obstruction call, but if we do the BU will have already signaled and thus no appeal is allowed. Assuming no obstruction was signaled, B1 passed 1B so he "acquired" it and can only be out on appeal since the ball is now dead, he can't retouch, and in fact he went to the dugout, but he can still be out on appeal. The ball is dead so I am going to allow the defense to put the ball in play to appeal, assuming infielders have not left the field.

R3 and R2 scored. Game over.

You put this in quotes: where's it from?

As a blanket statement, I cannot believe it is correct.

vis: BR is obstructed from touching 1st as in the original sitch, is now standing fat & happy on 2d, making no effort to return. D appeals the miss, I've got an out. Does your mileage vary?

My Jaska/Roder reference states that "if a runner misses a base because of obstruction, an appeal of his miss of such base cannot be upheld."

Makes sense to me.

OK, that's where I went looking for it: how about a section or page citation?

I have an old edition, but it is in the Interference and Obstruction Section, chapter on Obstruction.

I always thought an obstructed runner was required to touch all bases no matter the obstruction?

J/R, page 121, 2004 Edition.

DG has provided the page number, but in case you have a different edition, it appears in Chapter 15 --Obstruction about 2.5 pages in, just under the section "Ruling on Obstruction." Although this blanket statement appears to be at variance with normal practice in awarding bases, I believe it is necessary. Consider this situation: R1 and B/R hits a fly ball which just goes over F8's head. B/R is prevented from touching first because F3 is standing on the bag, but chooses to continue to second, and is safe. The umpire calls obstruction, and decides to protect the B/R to second. Now there is no award-- the runner has attained the base he was protected to. If by rule the runner were subject to appeal for missing first base, then enterprising defenses would routinely obstruct the runner from touching first base, knowing that the runner's only safety is to stop at first. Sure, B/R will be awarded second, but the defense improves its chances of preventing R1 from scoring, or if R1 can score, of B/R advancing to third during the play at the plate.

The J/R ruling covers situations where the runner did not have an opporunity to touch the base during live action due to the obstruction.

However, as the ball is now dead, the runner now does have the opportunity and must do so.

<i> Originally posted by jumpmaster </i>

<b> OBR: Bottom of the ninth...home team at bat...down by one run...two outs...R2, R3. Bloop base hit to shallow left field. Ball drops and R2, R3 easily score. While rounding first the BR misses first base because F1 is standing in the middle of it. After a long round and seeing that F6 now has the ball the BR tries to get back to first and the subsequent throw ends up in the dugout. Having seen the ball enter the dugout and hearing the umpire shout 'dead ball you third base'...the BR proceeds to head to the dugout as he thinks the game is over. The visiting manager comes out to argue the call and says that they should be allowed to appeal that the runner missed first. Tell me step by step what you are going to say (rule book terminology) and do. </b>

<i> OBR 7.06

When obstruction occurs, the umpire shall call or signal "Obstruction." (a) If a play is being made on the obstructed runner, or <b> if the batter runner is obstructed before he touches first base, the ball is dead and all runners shall advance, without liability to be put out, to the bases they would have reached, in the umpire's judgment, if there had been no obstruction. </b> </i>

B1 was Obstructed before he touched first base, game over.

Now reality.

<b> F1 is standing in the middle of it. </b>

Simply push F1 out of the way to touch the base. In addition you said the middle of it. All the runner has to do is touch ANY part of the base.

In any event - Game Over. If manager comes out while I am on my way to the car. It's skip R1 was obstructed as your fielder was blocking the entire base. End of Discussion Game Over.

Pete Booth

Lets not over-complicate things. The only thing that would alter the outcome of this game is if the BR is called out before he reaches 1B. No way you are getting an out on this play since you have obstruction on BR before he reached 1b.

Game over.

Mike

Game is over one way or the other, it was bottom of ninth with 2 outs when play happened. The BR can be called out for missing 1B. I don't see how I could call obstruction on a BR to reach 1B with F1 standing on top of the bag, he should be able to touch it somewhere. I think I could see an obstruction call on his advance to 2B, since F1 standing on the bag makes it more difficult to make the turn. With ball in the outfield and the winning run scoring easily, no way should he miss touching 1B.

DG,

I think we both making assumptions but I see your point. HTBT but if I see BR miss first because F3 is standing on the bag I have obsruction without a play(type b). Therefore in this sitch, play continues and BR tries to return to 1B when a play is attempted. The question is; would you award 1B to BR after ball is thrown into DBT?

Mike

IF (large IF), I called obstruction on F1 before BR reached 1B, then that would be a type b and he is awarded 1B. But, he has to touch 1B to complete the award and if he goes to the dugout instead we could have abandonement. From J/R again, "Once the ball is dead, an offensive player can advance, but only because of an award resulting from live ball action. Such runner cannot be put out by the defense, but can be declared out by the umpire for abandoning his effort to run the bases..." Of course the proper mechanic would be to call the obstruction, wait for play to be over and then say "you, 1B". If he goes to the dugout after that then there is no need for an appeal because I have abandonement before reaching 1B, runs don't count, game over.

This is apparently a real situation that actually happened, but if BR can not touch 1B somehow when he knows he has driven in the tieing and winning run, I just don't understand that. There is no reason for him to round 1B and head for 2B, all he has to do is run up to the bag and nick any part of it with any part of either foot and game over. I think he can do this with F1 standing on the bag so there is no way I call obstruction on F1 before reaching 1B. I think I could see obstruction on advance to 2B, but this would be type b and he is awarded nothing, but he has to touch 1B to erase the miss, and if he goes to the dugout then I have abandonment after acquiring 1B, runs scored game over, unless defense appeals for advantageous 4th out, and then game over runs don't score.

[Edited by DG on May 27th, 2005 at 01:59 PM]

You don't see any reason to call obstruction if F1 is standing on first base and the batter tries to avoid him and missed first base?!? Really?

Wow!

Thd interp as I understand says he has to try to touch and only if the obstruction cleary prevents it do you deny an appeal. 2005 BRD Item 335

DG,

I get your logic, however this is result: Offensive coach who just had win taken away: "Blue why did you call my runner out!" UMP:"Well he never made the touch at first." Coach:"The first baseman was standing right on the base, isn't that obstruction?" UMP: "Naa he could or should have touched it somewhere, evan a little bit of the corner."

Prepare to eject. Now I will buy your argument that he abandoned. However if the BU calls the obstruction loud and clear and then kills the play after overthrow then the runner probably stays on 1B.

If we don't call obstruction on the play as described what is the result? Coach to his next hitter: "OK Johnny if he does'nt get out of your way, knock him down!" I thinks we've all heard that one.

Mike

Even if obstructed, he still has to attempt to touch during live action.

You only "ignore" the lack of touch if the obstruction clearly prevented the touch. Even if obstructed, he still has to touch on the award because there was no hinderance once the ball became dead.

The game is over get out of town!
 

Winning runs scored, the game is over and we're out of here.

Obviously this must have been "small ball" because no 1st baseman is going to be standing on the bag in real baseball.

But if the coach asked, "coach he was obstructed, he was going to get at least second, the overthrow was going to send him to third, ballgame!!

there's nothing else to discuss

Thanks
David

"You don't see any reason to call obstruction if F1 is standing on first base and the batter tries to avoid him and missed first base?!? Really?"

Yes, you can call it. But as the ball is now dead and an award in progress, there is now no hinderance and he has to touch.

Okay, the original post said what would you do.

Hey you, (BR) come here and touch first, now you're going to get second because of obstruction and then third on the overthrow.

Now ballgame.

I'm not going to allow the defense to gain any advantage when they instigated the mess to start with.

thanks
David

Re: The game is over get out of town!
 

actually it was AAA Legion.

lesson I learned...don't assume TWP only happen to TW Umps. In amatuer baseball, ANYTHING can happen.

I see no reason to call obstruction on BR before he reaches 1B because F1 is standing on it. With the ball in the outfield he could run up to it, stop and touch it with his toe. Then I could call obstruction on his advance to 2B, but of course this would be type b. He can touch it somewhere. He is not obstructed from touching 1B. I said this already. Having passed the base he has acquired it, and he has to touch it after dead ball, or be out on appeal.

"Hey you, (BR) come here and touch first, now you're going to get second because of obstruction and then third on the overthrow."


Telling him he's awarded 2nd and third - OK

Telling him he has to touch first - a <font size=4><b>BIG</b></font> no-no.

Since when?
 

Not in my games. As I said above, the reason he missed the base was because he was blocked by F3.

I'm not going to allow them to appeal then because of that.

As I said, game is over, we're going home.

thanks
David

Then consider this play: R1 and R2, batter hits long fly ball to the gap, R2 and R1 are on their horses to score. Catcher obstructs R2 in a big collision just short of the plate, then R1 runs through the train wreck and scores.

Are you seriously going to uphold an appeal on R2's "miss" of the plate, and/or are you going to call R1 out for "passing" R2?

I hope not.

I don't see the problem. You say catcher obstructs R2. R2 is awarded home. I am not going to uphold a miss due to an obstruction.

Re: Since when?
 

Exactly. I'm on my way to the car. Anyone who would "find" the out here (1) has little CS&FP and (2) doesn't know when to go home.