Contradiction between Fed 8.4.2b and 8.4.2g

[Gre144]

It seems like, according to FED 8-4-2b, that on a force slide play 2 outs will automatically be called. However, if we use FED 8-4-2g to enforce the penalty for illegal contact(such as an illegal slide) than one out or two outs can be called.
What I am having trouble understanding is that for a force-play situation 8-4-2b says that 2 outs must be called and
8-4-2-g says that 2 outs can be called only if a double play is prevented.

Which rule do we use in a force-play situation- FED 8-4-2b(2 outs) or FED 8-4-2g(umpires judgment)?

Thanks,

Greg

[Edited by Gre144 on Mar 27th, 2001 at 10:27 PM]

[PAblue87]

The diifference is on a FORCE PLAY, that is when you use the Force Play slide. In this situation you will call 2 Outs. The batter runner is out as well as the runner causing the interference. This can happen at any base as long as there is a FORCE.

In the second situation it is up to the umpoires judgment on a NON FORCE play if a double play could have ocurred.

[Gre144]

Are we saying that anytime there is a force play situation-that is a man on first, first and second, or bases loaded and interference occurs you call an automatic two outs in FED?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Gre144
It seems like, according to FED 8.4.2b, that on a force slide play 2 outs will automatically be called. However, if we use FED 8.4.2g to enforce the penalty for illegal contact(such as an illegal slide) than one out or two outs can be called.
What I am having trouble understanding is that for a force-play situation 8.4.2b says that 2 outs must be called and 8.4.2.g says that 2 outs can be called only if a double play is prevented.

Which rule do we use in a force-play situation- FED 8.4.2b(2 outs) or FED 8.4.2g(umpires judgment)?

Thanks,

Greg

[Edited by Gre144 on Mar 27th, 2001 at 03:11 PM]

Wow. This question is in three threads -- it must be important.

First, the references you want are 8-4-2b and 8-4-2g -- the dashes signify the rules book and the periods the case book.

Now for the answer

Use 8-4-2g when the interference is with a fielder *fielding* a batted ball. Call the double play only if it's likely.

Use 8-4-2b when the interference is on a *play* attempting to retire a runner. If it's a force play, and an illegal slide (the definition of which expands during a force play), then the DP is automatic.

See -- no real contradiction at all.

[PAblue87]

Originally posted by Gre144
Are we saying that anytime there is a force play situation-that is a man on first, first and second, or bases loaded and interference occurs you call an automatic two outs in FED?

When there is an illegal slide or interference at any base, and the conditions of the FORCE PLAY SLIDE are met, then yes you will have 2 outs.

When a fielder is interfered with when fielding a ball, it is your judgment as to whether a Double Play will be awarded.

[Gre144]

I think I understand it completely. I unfortunately made the wrong call in the game that I had. R1 ran into F6 who was catching a throw at second base from F4. I thought that since R1 didn't slide, the force slide rule was not in affect. But now I know that the interference made by R1 was actually an illegal slide according to 2-32-2-f(even though he did not actually slide) I should have called two outs because of the force slide rule. If I am wrong please tell me and thanks for all of your combined help.

Greg

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Gre144
I think I understand it completely. I unfortunately made the wrong call in the game that I had. R1 ran into F6 who was catching a throw at second base from F4. I thought that since R1 didn't slide, the force slide rule was not in affect. But now I know that the interference made by R1 was actually an illegal slide according to 2-32-2-f(even though he did not actually slide) I should have called two outs because of the force slide rule. If I am wrong please tell me and thanks for all of your combined help.

Greg

Your new knowledge on this play is correct.

It matters not that you missed the call. What matters is that you learned from it and (I hope) won't miss it again.

Good job.