Catcher hurt......do you kill the play?

[akalsey]

If a player gets hit in the throat and collapses his airway, stopping play and getting him help 10 seconds earlier is not going to matter. This is a situation that requires trained medical personel and unless they're sitting outside the gate, those extra 10 seconds won't help.

The same goes for lost eyeballs, missing teeth, punctured lungs, or any other horror story you can dream up. Most of these medical emergencies require medical personel that simply aren't present. The 10 seconds it takes for you to kill the play is only a small portion of the 10 minutes it's going to take for the ambulance to arrive.

We can make up "what if's" all day long if you'd like, but what's the point?

Again, I think an appropriate guideline to use is, "would I grant time if asked?" If you would, it's probably an acceptable time to kill the play.

[chris s]

Kinda heavy on the safety vs. the rules. I am assuming(probabaly should not) that this is a game with players that shave. Play was a pitch tagged F2 in the throat, ball got away(at least you would think). I've worked games of 12 year olds where the F1 is on his horse to the dish on a wild pitch/passed ball/e on F2, or in this case a bad bounce that KO's his battery mate. Kid on first stands still, cuz dumb-a$$ 3bc has his head up his, 1bc is probabaly scratching his. F2 is hurting(can't blame him) and walks off field(so to speak).....sorry guys, there is 9 of you out there, SOMEBODY better have the brains to control that ball and runner(s).I have had F2's that have been smoked protecting me and thier game with thier body, part of the job, they know that(or should). Sounds really like Rut had a stoopid 3bc/skippy and got away with what he could, great....as long as he does not get flak, all is well........till a real ump comes along and pays the price.

If I get clocked in the nads on a wild pitch, ball goes sailing to the backstop 50 feet away, do I get to stop play cuz my left nut is sitting in my intestines??? Yeah, right. Been there, done that................

[GarthB]

Originally posted by chris s
Kinda heavy on the safety vs. the rules. I am assuming(probabaly should not) that this is a game with players that shave. Play was a pitch tagged F2 in the throat, ball got away(at least you would think). I've worked games of 12 year olds where the F1 is on his horse to the dish on a wild pitch/passed ball/e on F2, or in this case a bad bounce that KO's his battery mate. Kid on first stands still, cuz dumb-a$$ 3bc has his head up his, 1bc is probabaly scratching his. F2 is hurting(can't blame him) and walks off field(so to speak).....sorry guys, there is 9 of you out there, SOMEBODY better have the brains to control that ball and runner(s).I have had F2's that have been smoked protecting me and thier game with thier body, part of the job, they know that(or should). Sounds really like Rut had a stoopid 3bc/skippy and got away with what he could, great....as long as he does not get flak, all is well........till a real ump comes along and pays the price.

If I get clocked in the nads on a wild pitch, ball goes sailing to the backstop 50 feet away, do I get to stop play cuz my left nut is sitting in my intestines??? Yeah, right. Been there, done that................

Chris, my man! Where the hell you been? I'll be in Monterey in about a week. Are we ever going to get together?

[chris s]

Originally posted by GarthB

Chris, my man! Where the hell you been? I'll be in Monterey in about a week. Are we ever going to get together?

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Garth, tiss along story........gimme an email @ [email protected]

[chris s]

Originally posted by chris s

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Garth, tiss along story........gimme an email @ [email protected]

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BTW your sig has a "fyc"


Love it!!!!!!!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by akalsey
If a player gets hit in the throat and collapses his airway, stopping play and getting him help 10 seconds earlier is not going to matter. This is a situation that requires trained medical personel and unless they're sitting outside the gate, those extra 10 seconds won't help.

Agreed. And I'll add that there's a difference between "stopping play" and "getting help". That is, I won't penalize the coach / trainer / mom from coming onto the field (in the more serious cases) as long as they don't interfere with the play that's ongoing. In most cases, by the time the "help" gets into a position wherer there *could* be interference, the play has stopped onit's own anyway.

I've forgotten the original play, but it seems to me that it's possible that play had stopped (i seem to recall some statement like, "the ball was lying at F2's feet and R1 was not advancing"). In that case, I think it's okay to call time. If my recolection is not correct, then I'd leave the play alive.

[Dave Hensley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bob jenkins

I've forgotten the original play, but it seems to me that it's possible that play had stopped (i seem to recall some statement like, "the ball was lying at F2's feet and R1 was not advancing"). In that case, I think it's okay to call time. If my recolection is not correct, then I'd leave the play alive.

From the original post:

"Then the runner starts to run to second base after a couple of seconds, but at the same time I kill the play."

There may have been a small window of opportunity to call time before R1 took off, but it appears time was called while a runner was advancing. The original poster never stated what he did with R1 - send him back or give him 2B.

[His High Holiness]

All;

We have seen how you all line up regarding a play when someone is hurt but is not in the way of continuing action. Most of us have agreed that 10 seconds of delaying treatment is not going to matter a hill of beans one way or another. However, how would you handle the following: (It happened to me once. It was a game involving players over 18.)

R2, R3, 0 outs and the infield is in. Ground ball to short who throws home to get R3. There was a collision with no malicious contact and the catcher falls in a heap on top of home plate with a bone sticking out of his leg and the ball rolling towards the backstop. R2 has rounded third and there is going to be a close play at the plate and the catcher is in the vicinity of it with a blood spurting artery.

Your call?!

BTW, this is the bottom of the 8th inning, R3 was the tying run and R2 is the go ahead run.

Peter

[Edited by His High Holiness on May 18th, 2005 at 10:54 AM]

[scyguy]

wow, it would seem that F2 could sustain further injury if you allow R2 to slide/step on home plate. Did F1 retrieve ball from backstop??

I might be in the minority, but I don't think I can allow R2 to come sliding into F2 as he is bleeding all over the plate.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by His High Holiness
All;

We have seen how you all line up regarding a play when someone is hurt but is not in the way of continuing action. Most of us have agreed that 10 seconds of delaying treatment is not going to matter a hill of beans one way or another. However, how would you handle the following: (It happened to me once. It was a game involving players over 18.)

R2, R3, 0 outs and the infield is in. Ground ball to short who throws home to get R3. There was a collision with no malicious contact and the catcher falls in a heap on top of home plate with a bone sticking out of his leg and the ball rolling towards the backstop. R2 has rounded third and there is going to be another play at the plate and the catcher is laying on top of it with a blood spurting artery.

Your call?!

Peter

Amateur ball? Two calls. 9.01 (c) and 911.

Time! And while the dust is settling R2 is going back to third. Hopefully his coach chooses to remain in the game, but if he doesn't , so be it.

[mcrowder]

HHH has posted a play that I will kill. There is a very real and obvious chance for significant further injury if I don't kill it.

But I differ from the last poster, in that if F1 is no where near the ball, R2 is coming home and R3 is going to third.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by mcrowder
HHH has posted a play that I will kill. There is a very real and obvious chance for significant further injury if I don't kill it.

But I differ from the last poster, in that if F1 is no where near the ball, R2 is coming home and R3 is going to third.

How can you do that? R3 (the runner at third) would have scored before R2 (the runner from second). As Desi would say: "You got some 'splaining to do."

[mcrowder]

Crap.

Misread the post, and had softball terminology in my head from reading some of their posts.

I would score R2 if I thought it likely that he would score on the loose ball. Kill the play for safety reasons, but don't penalize either team (in this case, the offense).

[Tim C]

I would also kill this play and return R2.

Only in professional baseball would the play be allowed to go on.

Of course that is just my opinion.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

Your opinion is duly noted. What justifies the insult ("not worth the weight of your ball bags") to those who see the issue differently?

Actually been busy at work today.

My insult was aimed to those that so non-chalantly disregard the importance of a serious injury, to the importance of letting the play finish.

I did not indentify anyone, but several have stated that a couple of seconds here or there, just wasn't that important. Important to whom , them.

I have seen situations where seconds were important. Skate to the throat, batter somehow turns his leg in the box to the point the the lower leg breaks and protudes through the skin. Play was killed immediately. No concern of what was happening in the game. On the other hand there were times, as stated previously, where play was allowed to continue.

I realize, a good official has to ride the fine line of being overly arrogant, confident and in control, yet approachable and sometimes even personable. We are also open to critizism for everything we do while officiating contests. But to me, it shows unjustified arrogance, and a lack of respect, to the players and families, when this is allowed to happen.

Your right this is my opinion and if it comes across as an insult to some, well then, mabey I'm just being overly-arrogant, what can I say.