Interference or not?

[iclaudius]

Here's the situation:

Little League-Senior Division (13-15 yo boys). One out and there are runners at 1st and 3rd. Ball is hit and the runner advancing from first is forced out at second. The 3rd base runner, with no play at home attempted by the defense, literally strolls across the home plate, tying a close ball game. The home plate umpire observed the runner, before he crossed home plate, being "high-fived" by the on-deck batter. There was no assistance offered by the child offering the "high-five" and certainly there was no obstruction or impediment to his teammates progress. The defense had not contested the runner as he scored.

The home plate umpire, in his judgment, declares the scored run null and void and further declares the runner to be put out. The home plate umpire informs the third base coach, the "rules" do not permit this contact, however innocent, and the game continues. I believe this is an example of incredibly poor judgment and violates the spirit of Little League baseball if not the actual "rules" themselves.

Sooooooo...here's the question. Just what rule was violated? Chapter and verse, please. This was the second worst call I have ever seen in baseball and I am now 50 years old. Could you or others offer your opinions regarding this call and cite other sources or experiences with calls similar to this?

http://www.angelfire.com/ia3/littlel.../rulemyths.htm

Rule 7.09(I) says the runner is out if the coach PHYSICALLY ASSISTS the runner. Hand slaps (the offense committed by this child), back pats or simple touches are not physical assists.

I appreciate your clearing this up!

Thanks
Dr. William C. Elmore
District 6 Little League
Fayetteville, NC

[UmpJM]

Dr. Bill,

The runner was properly declared out under 7.08(q)2(c):

"Approved Ruling: If a runner, who has not batted the ball out of play over fair territory, receives congratulations from an "other teammate", who is not a runner, as he is about to legally score a run, and the congratulatory gesture involves physical contact which occurs above the horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, said runner shall be decalred out and his run shall be nullified. "

I mean, what's unclear about that.

Oops, wait a minute. You said you were playing Little League, not CalvinBall.

Never mind.

The umpire is a moron and should be "sentenced" to four weeks of umpiring only T-Ball games. And five "Hail Marys".

JM

[cowbyfan1]

No doubt the ump is a moron and is still calling at a level above his abilities. The only thing he possibly has is a warning to the offensive team for the on deck (or whoever it was) for being where he was.

[orioles35]

Besides, when you're playing Calvinball there aren't any rules!

[UmpJM]

It has been brought to my attention that none of us has actually answered the Dr.'s question in terms of the relevant rules. So, I'll give it a try.

In case it wasn't clear from my earlier comments, it is my opinion that this guy has no business umpiring given the current state of his understanding of the rules and the spirit of their application to the game of baseball.

However, upon further reflection, I would like to withdraw my suggested "sentence" because it really wouldn't be fair to the poor T-Baller's - heck, they're just little kids and they certainly didn't do anything to deserve having their games ruined by this guy's presence.

OK, now that I've gotten that off my chest, let me see if I can answer your legitimate question (if I am understanding it correctly) regarding the relevant rules that apply.

Now, you didn't say this in your post, but some "inexperienced" umpires will suggest that while a "high five" after a home run is OK, if the "high five" occurs while the runner is "in jeopardy" and the ball is "live", the runner is properly called out.

1. Based on your description of the play, the ball is, in fact, "live" and "in play" - nothing has happened that would make the ball "dead" by rule, and the umpire has not called "Time". This is irrelevant in terms of the umpire's incorrect call.

2. LL Rule 7.09(i) appears to be the rule that the umpire has misapplied in this situation. Although the text of the rule explicitly mentions "base coaches" being prohibited from "physically assisting" a runner, the same principle applies to an "other teammate", which would apply to the on-deck batter. (Curiously enough, it does not apply to "other teammates" who happen to be legal runners at the time of the "physical assistance". That is, it is LEGAL for one runner to "physically assist" another in running the bases - so long as the "following" runner does not "pass" the "preceding" runner.)

However, giving a "high-five" is NOT deemed "physical assistance" in the context of the rule. I know this because it is explicitly stated in the LL Rule Instruction Manual in the "Instructor Comment" following Rule 7.09(i):

"INSTRUCTOR COMMENTS:

Þ Giving a “high five” or patting the player on the back after a home run IS NOT PHYSICAL ASSISTANCE. Do not call the player out for receiving a “high five” or a congratulatory pat on the back in situations such as this."


Now the rule says "after a home run", but the principle is the same in your situation. That is, a "high five" is not "physical assistance" regardless of whether or not the ball was in play at the time.

However, had the defense been attempting to play on the runner about to score at the time of the "high five" (by your description, the defense wasn't even "thinking about" making such a play in your situation) there is at least the possibility of a legitimate "out" call on the runner under 7.09(e) or 7.09(j) - not likely, but certainly possible. That is why my players are instructed to "save" their "congratulatory gestures" until after their teammate has actually touched home plate and has proceeded at least 15 feet away from home in his return to the dugout - and that's only on a home run, when the ball is "dead". Otherwise, the on-deck batter stays in the on-deck circle, the coaches in the coaches boxes, and everybody else in the dugout.

Also, you never know when you're going to have a guy like this umpiring your game, so it's best just to preclude the whole situation. Unless, of course, you enjoy protests.

With this guy, it might be fun. But, it's also kind of a "dicey proposition" because you have no idea what the umpire is going to put in his writeup. In fact, his writeup may bear only a "passing resemblance" to the situation you and everybody else at the ballpark actually saw happen. That's the chance you take.

In your situation, once it was clear that the umpire found him "unpersuasive" in his gentlemanly request that the umpire correct his erroneous call, your team's manager should have thanked the umpire for entertaining his appeal, informed the umpire that he was protesting the game because of his belief that the rule was misapplied, and promptly returned to the dugout. I'm guessing that didn't happen. If the manager does not do so prior to the next pitch or play, he has lost the opportunity and the call stands, regardless of whether or not it was correct. (On a "game-ending" play, OBR allows a protest within 24 hrs. of the end of the game - LL may differ on this, I'm not sure).

So, I hope I've "covered all the bases" in regards to your question.

Now, I've got a couple of questions for you.

1. How far did you get in reading my "rule cite" before you realized I had simply made it up?

2. If this was the second worst call you've ever seen, I'm dying of curiousity regarding the call that "topped" this one.

JM

[mcrowder]

I don't think he can beat my partner's Verbal Fan Interference call I've posted here a few times ... but I too am curious to know what call was the WORST call the initial poster has ever observed.

[jumpmaster]

Fayette-nam never ceases to amaze me. Gosh I am glad I got out of there...

[iclaudius]

Thank you all for your posts.

For general amusement and comment, Okay, here is my

Worst call....

My son plays AAU on weekends and in our traveling about the great state of NC we (sorry, he) has to play, from time to time, at Middle Creek in Cary . Here's the situation:

Our team was playing defense. The game was tied and we have two out. There is a runner at 1B. The batter in the box takes a look at the pitch but before it reaches home plate, the PU calls a "balk"....but NOT on our pitcher.....rather the balk is called on (drum roll please) our first baseman!

Outraged, our coach complains but the PU explains that the rules require all players to have BOTH FEET inside the foul lines and consequently, our 1B, who was holding the runner straddling the bag with his right foot most definitely outside the "field of play," committed a "balk." Huh?

Again, this was a misapplication of some rule and now I don't remember which...perhaps you good men/women can tell me. In any event, with the runner awarded 2B, the batter drilled a ball to right field and the runner scores easily from 2B giving the other team the win.

There was such complaint the tourny officials "monitored" this umpire the next game and decided because of his demeanor and poor application of the rules in general, he was to never be invited back. Now this umpire "got his" in the end but kids get screwed when the rules are made up out of whole cloth, ignored or selectively enforced. I JUST LIKE TO KNOW WHAT THE RULES ARE...A little something I found useful while serving in the US Army.

[mcrowder]

That's bad.

Pales in comparison to my partner (posted before elsewhere - sorry for the repeat) who we never invited back.

I'm plate. R1, R3, high pop up to F4. As it's coming down, the fans all scream, and F4 drops the ball. I'm watching R3's touch, with the play in my peripheral vision. BU yells, "That's Inteference!!!!!" and calls runner out. OK. I didn't see anything, but my focus was elsewhere. We move on. Between games I ask him about the call.

Verbal Fan Interference. He called the runner out because the fans yelled and caused the 2nd baseman to drop the ball.

So I wasn't that shocked when in our next game, he yelled, for all the world to hear, that I was a "F---ing idiot" when I tried to explain to him that a 3rd strike that bounced, but was fielded cleanly was still an uncaught 3rd strike, and batter could attempt to run.

[iclaudius]

I could see him calling "team interference" for any collective yelling by the offensive benchers, but on the fans...my my my. Blue must be cerebrally challenged in a mighty way.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by iclaudius
Outraged, our coach complains but the PU explains that the rules require all players to have BOTH FEET inside the foul lines and consequently, our 1B, who was holding the runner straddling the bag with his right foot most definitely outside the "field of play," committed a "balk." Huh?

This so called "fielders balk" is a fairly common myth, among umpires, coaches, players and fans.

[Matthew F]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

This so called "fielders balk" is a fairly common myth, among umpires, coaches, players and fans.

Well, there is sort of a "Fielder's Balk" (at least in FED), if you want to blame it on the "fielder"...

"At the time of the pitch, all fielder shall be on fair ground... A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground". Such a pitch would be declared illegal.

[Macaroo]

Well, there is sort of a "Fielder's Balk" (at least in FED), if you want to blame it on the "fielder"...

"At the time of the pitch, all fielder shall be on fair ground... A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground". Such a pitch would be declared illegal.

Yeah, but...it's not a balk, it's a "don't do that, get in fair territory." At least in OBR

[blueump]

Originally posted by Macaroo

Yeah, but...it's not a balk, it's a "don't do that, get in fair territory." At least in OBR

In FED an illegal pitch IS a balk when there are runners on base. Its NOT a simple "don't do that"! (2-18-1)

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Matthew F

Well, there is sort of a "Fielder's Balk" (at least in FED), if you want to blame it on the "fielder"...

"At the time of the pitch, all fielder shall be on fair ground... A fielder is in fair ground when at least one foot is touching fair ground". Such a pitch would be declared illegal.

Yes, but "THIS (emphasis added) so called 'fielder's balk' " refers to one-foot in foul territory (the original play), and is not a balk in any code.

Second, in FED, if I notice it before the pitch, I correct it. If I don't notice it before the pitch, I can't call it.