dont say anything incriminating :D but has anyone considered carrying 'protection' for incidents such as Mr Rutledge has described earlier?

jes wondering.....its a hard world out there....

Good god, I hope not. Let me give you a real life example of how this can escalate.

Working as a manager at a pizza delivery place in the late 80s. One of our drivers was the victim of an attempted robbery (of about $30 bucks, tops), and pulled something he was "packing" out of his car. Robber ran away, my driver got a good look and a license plate.

Two days later, another attempted robbery - this time a different driver. Unfortunately, said robber had learned his lesson, and instead of just robbing my driver, he shot my driver first, took the money after.

Driver survived ... and got a look at the assailant - same guy, same car.

Think about this from an umpire perspective. You feel threatened and unpack something. Said fan leaves, but next time decides to pack something himself. You want to be the cause of a fellow blue being killed?

I think it would be foolish and impractical to carry a fire are to the field. A knife would be easy enough to carry and conceal but that would likely end up causing more trouble than it's worth. Most people don't know how to use a knife or when to actually deploy one. If you are feeling threatened, you best best is a cell phone.

Other than at your car, you best bet is to just leave. It is most always the smartest thing to do and is what you are legally required to do if you can.

I suppose one could carry something in their car, but short of someone approaching you with or pulling out, a weapon, your better off getting in your car and getting the %$#* out of Dodge.

I personally believe in the right to bear arms but have never felt the need to.

In the Dominoes case, having been a driver for them, I would have just given them the money if no weapon was displayed. If a weapon was displayed and I had the means to defend myself, I wouldn't hesitate to do so if I judged it to be appropriate. While I feel very bad for the second driver, saying that someone shouldn't defend themselves because the perpatrator might hurt someone else in the future is specious logic at best and I strongly disagree with it.

Everyone has an inalienable right to self defense, if one chooses.

Absolutely not!
No question about it!
Never going to happen!
End of discussion!

Plainclothes police officers sometimes wear a specially-designed fanny pack that hinges at the bottom and has velcro or another fastening device at the top. One tug and the pack flops down revealing both their badge and a holster for their gun.

Perhaps we could design something similar for an umpire's ball bag (maybe as an extension of this bag)? :)

I believe we should turn to our fellow poster Frank Drebin for advice on this issue.

I am a police officer so I have a firearm with me at most games. It is not on my person, and I would hope that no umpire is "packing".

I think if you absolutely feel you need protection, you should bring a can of mace at the most.

In Pennsylvania, it's a felony for a coach or fan to threaten an umpire. If a coach or fan gives you the "i'll see you in the parking lot after the game", then you call the police and have them take care of it. Get the name of that guy from a coach or parent if you can.

I agree with mcrowder on the potential for escalation, don't you guys remember the cold war? In the Marines we had a saying, "every body gets cut in a knife fight." Under no circumstance should an umpire pack any kind of weapon. The day things get so bad that I need to carry a gun to the field is the same day I retire.

As an owner of a concealed carry license I have been taught that when carrying you should avoid situations that put you in a high stress situation.

For example, if you've had a crappy day at work and your wife just called your cell and reminded you about the 8 things you said you would do but didnt...don't step into a crowded convience store that could get held up. Odds are you'll not be making great decisions at this point. It would be a bad time to have to decide if you need to pull out a gun or not.

As most would agree, umpiring is a high stress situation. At most keep your legal firearm in your car (if that is legal [know the law]). If you feel the need to carry something, try something non-lethal or turn back assignments at that ball park.

Also, if you're in the middle of a game in a bad neighborhood and you have concerns for your well being, use your cell phone to call the police before the game is over. In most places the field is the best lit area. Stay on the field until the police arrive.

[Edited by moorg on May 11th, 2005 at 11:47 PM]

In Oklahoma it is legal to carry but no way I would, especially to a ball game. Cannot have it on school property anyways. I agree with what was said before.. Cell phone is the answer.

Pepper spray. Cheap, readily available, effective, non-lethal. Avoids the no-firearms-on-school-property problem here in VA and other places.

[An amendment to VA law is effective July 1, 2005, after which the holder of a VA concealed handgun permit may have a loaded handgun in a vehicle in a school parking lot or driveway. The handgun must remain concealed and may not be removed from the vehicle.]

Your first and best response is to walk away, leave the area, just go away.

Pepper spray is not very effective. It will not incapacitate anyone. It will usually just serve to piss them off. Be careful thinking that it will drive someone away or prevent an attack.

And yes I know first hand the effects of pepper spray through military training.

Regardless of bad situations, including being in one myself a few months back at a basketball game, I can't even believe this discussion is going on.

We are discussing self-protection in the face of an irrational person or persons who may be totally out of control. Frequently (mostly, in my case), they are younger, bigger, stronger, and in better shape. Some of them have baseball bats.

It may be close to 11:00 PM and we are in an isolated county park or in back of some school. It is dark. There are twenty-some players and two umpires.

Why is it so hard to believe we would discuss this?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChapJim
[B]

Because baseball is the all American game and pasttime. Because it is sacred and holy and proper.
Because we love this game so much that we can't imagine someone demeaning this game with firearms and violence.
Yet we read in the papers that sports like ours are experiencing these kinds of events all too frequently. And all too frequently, the official is at the center of these conflicts.
That is why it is so hard to believe that we have to have this discussion. But we do have to have it. Because our well-being is at risk more and more with each game we officiate. The greater the number of contests we officiate, the greater the odds that we will be exposed to that violent situation.
That is the commentary of the sports enviornment we live in today.

Pepper spray is probably less effective on trained military personnel than on the general public. In any event, I'm not worried about pi$$ing the guy off. He's already pi$$ed off and he's got a baseball bat.

Leave the area? What do you think I'm trying to do? You think I'm going to stand there until he stops choking? The idea of pepper spray is to buy me enough time to get inside the car, lock the doors, maybe drive off, call the police, etc. It's also where the Sig .45 is. If he starts bashing car windows or doors, I believe a jury would find that under those circumstances, I had a reasonable fear of death or grave bodily harm and that shooting the SOB was a justifiable act of self-defense.

You know it's this very discussion, along with now having a bad reputation in my community because of a controversial call I made in a high school playoff basketball game, that makes me wonder why I even do this.

todd, you do this because of the love for sports. You officiate because of the need to make sure the games are played according to the rules. Finally, you do it because you have observed others officiating and felt there effort was less than admirable.

Did you make the correct call? Was it a judgement call that some agreed with and some didn't? If you live and that community and you didn't "homer" them and now they're mad, forget them because that's not what HS sports is about. They can blame you all they want but you didn't miss any shots or have any turnovers the entire game.

I don't know you but I can predict that you do this for the same reasons I do; love of the game, love the kids, want to give them the opportunity to play a safe and fair game, adreneline junkie, little extra $ in your pocket and I'm sure there are more. Now get your head up kid!