dixie youth umpire question

[wig23]

does anyone know where the rule for slinging your bat is in the dixie youth rule book , or is it a judgement call if it is dangerous and is this a warning to the player or to the team? thanks for any info

[akalsey]

Assuming you're describing a bat released after batting the ball, there is no such rule in OBR or any of the youth rules based on it that I've seen (including Dixie). Many local leagues write rules to prohibit it. Many coaches, parents and new umpires grew up with the myth that you are out if you toss the bat.

[danreeves1973]

Just finished perusing my Dixie book, again. There is no official rule anywhere in the Dixie book, which is based off of OBR, about slinging teh bat. Some leagues have it as a local option, ours does not. This applies to 9-12 and 13-14 yr old leagues.

Now there is a batslinging rule in the 7-8 yr old machine/coach pitch rules. It calls for a warning to be given to the player on the first occurance and an out for any subsequent.

I personally think its a bat habit for players to develop. I say this because I've been hit by bats being slung after a hit while calling the plate.

[Blue37]

Originally posted by danreeves1973
Just finished perusing my Dixie book, again. There is no official rule anywhere in the Dixie book, which is based off of OBR, about slinging teh bat. Some leagues have it as a local option, ours does not.

"Local option" is not available in Dixie. Dixie rules specifically indicate when a league can make a "local league option". An example of this is the time limit. Since there is nothing in the rule book allowing the local league to adopt such a rule, it is prohibited.

[DG]

Originally posted by Blue37

"Local option" is not available in Dixie. Dixie rules specifically indicate when a league can make a "local league option". An example of this is the time limit. Since there is nothing in the rule book allowing the local league to adopt such a rule, it is prohibited.

Local leagues will dream up all kinds of local rules, whether they are playind Dixie, LL, Babe Ruth, whatever. To say they are not allowed is to not accept reality.

[Blue37]

Originally posted by DG

Local leagues will dream up all kinds of local rules, whether they are playind Dixie, LL, Babe Ruth, whatever. To say they are not allowed is to not accept reality.

To say they are not allowed in Dixie is merely quoting the rule book. The Dixie book prohibits any modifications to the rules unless that option is written into the rules on the National level.

Now had I said "Since they are not allowed, no Dixie league does it", that would have been not accepting reality. I know leagues try to change the rules for their liking and most summer league umpires do not have the stones to tell them it cannot be done. Fortunately, the State Umpire-In-Chief lives in my home area, so I do not run into this often. The leagues know they cannot change the rules and they do not try.

I call in several leagues in a wide area, however, and occasionally run into "local league options" when I travel. If they conflict with the official rules, they are not used in my games. An example of this is a league that did not want to use the headfirst slide prohibition. This was a few years ago before it was taken out of the book. At the plate meeting, when the coach brought it up, I told him "Not tonight coach."

I have only had one league try to force me to let them change something in a game I was calling. They wanted to be able to withdraw a starter and reinsert him anywhere in the batting order. The league president caused a scene, but I stuck by my guns and told him he could take it up with the State Umpire-In-Chief. He said he would and I would never work for them again. I never heard whether he did or not, but they still call me a few times a year, and I worked a State for them last year.

[DG]

Originally posted by Blue37

To say they are not allowed in Dixie is merely quoting the rule book. The Dixie book prohibits any modifications to the rules unless that option is written into the rules on the National level.

Now had I said "Since they are not allowed, no Dixie league does it", that would have been not accepting reality. I know leagues try to change the rules for their liking and most summer league umpires do not have the stones to tell them it cannot be done. Fortunately, the State Umpire-In-Chief lives in my home area, so I do not run into this often. The leagues know they cannot change the rules and they do not try.

I call in several leagues in a wide area, however, and occasionally run into "local league options" when I travel. If they conflict with the official rules, they are not used in my games. An example of this is a league that did not want to use the headfirst slide prohibition. This was a few years ago before it was taken out of the book. At the plate meeting, when the coach brought it up, I told him "Not tonight coach."

I have only had one league try to force me to let them change something in a game I was calling. They wanted to be able to withdraw a starter and reinsert him anywhere in the batting order. The league president caused a scene, but I stuck by my guns and told him he could take it up with the State Umpire-In-Chief. He said he would and I would never work for them again. I never heard whether he did or not, but they still call me a few times a year, and I worked a State for them last year.

Change the rules is one thing, adding one is a different subject. Many leagues add a bat slinging rule in the lower age groups.

[Blue37]

Originally posted by DG
[/B]

Change the rules is one thing, adding one is a different subject. Many leagues add a bat slinging rule in the lower age groups. [/B][/QUOTE]

Tomahto/tomato Why is adding a rule different from deleting a rule or modifying a rule? All three are prohibited in Dixie (which was the original question). If I am wrong, please share your Dixie credentials and I will let my State Umpire-In-Chief know he is wrong.

[DG]

Originally posted by Blue37

Change the rules is one thing, adding one is a different subject. Many leagues add a bat slinging rule in the lower age groups. [/B]

Tomahto/tomato Why is adding a rule different from deleting a rule or modifying a rule? All three are prohibited in Dixie (which was the original question). If I am wrong, please share your Dixie credentials and I will let my State Umpire-In-Chief know he is wrong. [/B][/QUOTE]I have never seen a Dixie Youth game, but in my distant past I have been a local league president for 5 years and a Babe Ruth District Commissioner for 3 and unless Dixie is vastly different the state umpire in chief has no say so on running local leagues, and the District and State Commissioners want to keep the local leagues happy so they don't defect to some competing organization, therefore they don't get involved in how the local league is run. When it comes time for District and State tournaments all the local league rules go out the window and the games are played by the book. If, during the 5 years I was a league president the state umpire told me I could not add a local league rule that the league board wanted to add for safety purposes, there would have been at least 3 other organizations in my area that would have loved to have a 28 team league playing in age groups 7-15 to join them. Perhaps Dixie is so anal that they let the state umpire run their leagues and that is why there are not many Dixie leagues in these parts. I seriously doubt it, but again, I have no experience with Dixie.

[Blue37]

Originally posted by DG

I have no experience with Dixie. [/B]

Thanks for the confirmation.

[DG]

Originally posted by Blue37

Thanks for the confirmation. [/B]

As I mentioned, I do have experience in how leagues are run, without interference from state chief umpires. Why don't you ask your State Umpire in Chief if he would forbid a local league from "adding" a local league rule that they felt added more safety to the players?

[mcrowder]

Batslinging is illegal, by rule, in DIXIE SOFTBALL. Not Dixie hardball.

[Blue37]

Originally posted by DG

As I mentioned, I do have experience in how leagues are run, without interference from state chief umpires. Why don't you ask your State Umpire in Chief if he would forbid a local league from "adding" a local league rule that they felt added more safety to the players? [/B]

That is an easy one, but let me correct a misread on your part. If you go back to the beginning and read my posts again, you will notice I have never said the State Umpire-In-Chief prohibits this. It is the rulebook as published by the National Dixie Office which prohits creating, modifying, or disregarding rules, unless specifically allowed. The importance of the State Umpire-In-Chief being in the area is that he shows up unannounced to observe the umpires. If we are not working as proscribed by the governing body, we do not umpire any more. And if complaints are lodged because we do not allow rules modifications, he backs us 100%.

Now to your easy question. It is a matter of legality. The National Association (whether Dixie, LL, or whoever) sets rules for its participants. It has to take safety into consideration when promulgating the rules. When rules are issued, the Association is implicitly saying "These rules are sufficient to provide a reasonable expectation of safety." If it allows the rules to be altered by a local league for "safety" reasons, it is an admission that the original rules are not sufficient. A dangerous precedent to set in this day of litigation.

And let me make one more observation about bat slinging, which was the question that started this thread. The Dixie rule is more safety conscious than simply declaring the batter out. In Dixie, he should be ejected after a warning. If he is simply called out after the warning, he will likely come to bat again that game and can injure someone by slinging the bat again. It will be hard for him to injure someone with a slung bat while sitting on the bench.

[mcrowder]

Our State UIC (when we were Dixie, last year) said something to the effect of "You can have whatever extra rules you want. But if you add something not in the book, you can't call it Dixie, and you can't send me a team for tournament."

[DG]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Our State UIC (when we were Dixie, last year) said something to the effect of "You can have whatever extra rules you want. But if you add something not in the book, you can't call it Dixie, and you can't send me a team for tournament."

That is interesting, because if you read the Dixie bylaws available on the Dixie website there is no mention of a State UIC. District, State and National Directors are mentioned, along with their roles, but not State UIC. This guy seems to be wielding a lot of influence considering he does not exist in the bylaws.