If I did not know any better...

[scyguy]

If I read Rich's comments correctly, I need to open up my strike zone. Had a kid Sat set up with glove about 2" outside of white. Tie game, late innings, two strikes on batter, catcher does not move glove, I ball it. Pitch was outside strike zone. DC was not happy. So be it.

Umpires have reputations. If your rep is having a "big" strike zone okay, but I want to be known as an umpire that consistently calls the zone. I want coaches to know what they are getting when they hire me. In a quality game with quality pitching, no pitch below the knees is a strike, period! No pitch that is of the plate inside or outside is a stike, period. Let me say, however, that I agree with Tim that the plate is 22" and I do give alittle black. But an inch of clearance between ball and black, no way!

[Rich]

Originally posted by mcrowder
Re: 17" vs 22" - I did say 17 (plus the width of the ball) in the first post, but shortened that to just 17 for future posts (got tired of typing the extra).

I see your points, and I do understand that sometimes the PERCEIVED call is the one that is made. Where I was going with that is that I've seen umpires call a pitch 6-8 inches outside where the catcher set up just outside of the corner and only moved the glove 3-4 inches... and then justify it using the logic posted here. I feel that's patently unfair to the hitter, who (most times) has no clue where the catcher has set up. It sounds like you are not saying here that YOU call it that way.

I believe that I will continue to call the strike on the inside black, with catcher set up outside a strike. If I called it with the catcher in the middle, I'm calling it wherever he sits. I also do not see the justification for calling a borderline pitch a strike if the catcher catches it, and a ball if he drops it. Frankly, that seems exceedingly silly. A strike is a strike is a strike.

You are missing one thing, probably cause I haven't said it well. I'm talking about a borderline pitch where I'm using every bit of evidence from the time the pitch leaves the pitcher's hand until he catches it. If he catches it well, I'm able to continue processing information and it may end up giving me enough to call it a strike. If he drops it and the ball is rolling around, well, it's going to be harder for me to do that.

I don't intentionally punish catchers who don't catch pitches. But I will say -- even on a cock shot at the higher levels -- if I call it a ball because the catcher didn't catch it, the coach is going to be yelling at the catcher to squeeze it, not at me.

[Rich]

Originally posted by scyguy
If I read Rich's comments correctly, I need to open up my strike zone. Had a kid Sat set up with glove about 2" outside of white. Tie game, late innings, two strikes on batter, catcher does not move glove, I ball it. Pitch was outside strike zone. DC was not happy. So be it.

Umpires have reputations. If your rep is having a "big" strike zone okay, but I want to be known as an umpire that consistently calls the zone. I want coaches to know what they are getting when they hire me. In a quality game with quality pitching, no pitch below the knees is a strike, period! No pitch that is of the plate inside or outside is a stike, period. Let me say, however, that I agree with Tim that the plate is 22" and I do give alittle black. But an inch of clearance between ball and black, no way!

Your reputation will be one of an umpire who (1) squeezes pitchers and (2) doesn't know how to call a good corner.

A 14-13 game with 26 walks doesn't make anyone happy.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by scyguy
If I read Rich's comments correctly, I need to open up my strike zone. Had a kid Sat set up with glove about 2" outside of white. Tie game, late innings, two strikes on batter, catcher does not move glove, I ball it. Pitch was outside strike zone. DC was not happy. So be it.

Umpires have reputations. If your rep is having a "big" strike zone okay, but I want to be known as an umpire that consistently calls the zone. I want coaches to know what they are getting when they hire me. In a quality game with quality pitching, no pitch below the knees is a strike, period! No pitch that is of the plate inside or outside is a stike, period. Let me say, however, that I agree with Tim that the plate is 22" and I do give alittle black. But an inch of clearance between ball and black, no way!

Scyguy, there is an old theory that if you call a big (not exagerated) strike zone early in the game, the teams will swing the bat more often and decide the game without you. Just stay consistent. Most of all, your games will be shorter.

But, if you like calling balls and consistently have 3 hr games. Be our guest. Now when you get to the Pros, well good job and we hope you come back to give us your input then, too. 8 varsity games to date this year. 7 of them avg just under 2 hrs. First one 3-1/2hrs. 25-0 and the strike zone was nose to knees, at least 26 inches wide.

[David B]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

You are missing one thing, probably cause I haven't said it well. I'm talking about a borderline pitch where I'm using every bit of evidence from the time the pitch leaves the pitcher's hand until he catches it. If he catches it well, I'm able to continue processing information and it may end up giving me enough to call it a strike. If he drops it and the ball is rolling around, well, it's going to be harder for me to do that.

I don't intentionally punish catchers who don't catch pitches. But I will say -- even on a cock shot at the higher levels -- if I call it a ball because the catcher didn't catch it, the coach is going to be yelling at the catcher to squeeze it, not at me.

And good coaches know the difference. Might be where you are umpiring but around the South when F2 drops the pitch on a marginal pitch, the coach usually says right away,

"c'mon jj, if you catch that pitch its a strike."

Once you get to college ball that's expected and is pretty much traditional. If you want to call them go ahead, but you're only going to ask for trouble and the coaches do know the difference.

Well, not all coaches do, but you know what I mean.

Thanks
David

[Tim C]

It was noted somewhere above:

" . . . no pitch below the knees is a strike, period!"

--------------------------------

Then this umpire would never work serious baseball in my area. A pitch where the top of the ball catches the bottom of the knee and is caught and framed well by F2 is a strike when seen by upper level umpires.

Pretty simple.

As an umpire calls more of the defined strike zone players, coaches and even fans adjust to what is called.

When I first started as an umpire my first goal was to have a consistent strike zone for each individual hitter.

As my abilities increased through practice I increased that consistency to complete half innings. Soon that moved to full innings.

Somewhere along the way I noticed that calling balls and strikes was much easier than I had thought. It was simply good positioning, tracking the pitch and having good timing.

Somewhere in the late 70's my consistency had stretched to several innings (and now and then even a full game).

I never had an exact instant when working the dish for balls/strikes became "easy" -- it just did. But remember, in those days if a PU had 8 to 10 "questionable pitches" he was considered to have done a very good job.

So now we fast forward to today:

I seldom ever get must "harping" from anyone on balls/strikes. Being my own worst critic I work to keep under 2 Ups and 2 Downs (what we call strikes that are called balls and balls that you call strikes -- last night I was 0 ups and 1 down).

I also am considered a "pitcher's umpire." Do I "expand" the strike zone . . . nope, I just call more of it than some.

In closing I always post the same thing here over-and-over:

Umpires seldom, if ever, get in trouble for calling too many strikes (ignore Eric Gregg in this situation) or too many outs.

The "easy" calls and balls and safes.

[scyguy]

if the top of the ball hits the bottom of the knee, then it is not below the knee, is it?? Don't put words in my mouth. If you use the call more strikes philosophy then you are going to call pitches one or two inches below the knee a strike. How about expanding the top of the zone, now lets call just below the arm pits. How about 2, no 3 inches off the plate. When does it stop?? Call the zone that is defined in the rulebook. If the game takes 3 hours, so be it. Remember, the hitter deserves the same respect as the pitcher. Just because I want to get home to my family doesn't mean I start calling pitches outside the zone strikes. Just my opinion.

[Rich]

Originally posted by scyguy
if the top of the ball hits the bottom of the knee, then it is not below the knee, is it?? Don't put words in my mouth. If you use the call more strikes philosophy then you are going to call pitches one or two inches below the knee a strike. How about expanding the top of the zone, now lets call just below the arm pits. How about 2, no 3 inches off the plate. When does it stop?? Call the zone that is defined in the rulebook. If the game takes 3 hours, so be it. Remember, the hitter deserves the same respect as the pitcher. Just because I want to get home to my family doesn't mean I start calling pitches outside the zone strikes. Just my opinion.

Please come back and tell me when everything we've been telling you finally makes sense. It will happen at some point.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by scyguy
Call the zone that is defined in the rulebook.

Come on man, you have to be kidding.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by scyguy
if the top of the ball hits the bottom of the knee, then it is not below the knee, is it?? Don't put words in my mouth. If you use the call more strikes philosophy then you are going to call pitches one or two inches below the knee a strike. How about expanding the top of the zone, now lets call just below the arm pits. How about 2, no 3 inches off the plate. When does it stop?? Call the zone that is defined in the rulebook. If the game takes 3 hours, so be it. Remember, the hitter deserves the same respect as the pitcher. Just because I want to get home to my family doesn't mean I start calling pitches outside the zone strikes. Just my opinion.

I agree with Rich, GOOD LUCK.

[Tim C]

I tried.

But alas -- I will now turn my attention to guys that "get it!"

As Carl is wont to say, "Lah Me!"

[scyguy]

Before I started umpiring I coached HS baseball for 13 years. As a coach my teams won 7 district titles, 4 sectional titles and two trips to the state tournament. As a coach I appreciated umpires that called the zone. I understood that if I taught my pitchers to make quality pitches, then they would be successful. Also, if I taught my hitters the strike zone then they could be successful. When umpires would "expand" the zone to meet their own needs, it put my trained hitters at a disadvantage.

I come to umpiring with this mindset. Equity for both pitcher and hitter. I appreciate the comments that I am recieving, but expanding my zone is not a comfortable idea.

You guys preach that we need to call the book, ie gorilla arm balks, etc. but are willing to go outside the book to create new dimensions for the zone. You are right--I don't get it. Why do you do it? To eliminate a game with alot of walks or take 3 hours. Well, if the coaches taught there pitchers how to throw strikes this would not be a problem. Call the zone defined in the book.

Its kinda like letting kids have poor grades and continue to play athletics. If we don't demand more from our kids, how are they going to improve? If I reward pitchers when they don't earn it, then what am I teaching?

Maybe one of the reasons for inadequate pitching in the professional levels is because they were allowed to get away with so much as amateurs.

[tmp44]

Originally posted by scyguy
Before I started umpiring I coached HS baseball for 13 years. As a coach my teams won 7 district titles, 4 sectional titles and two trips to the state tournament. As a coach I appreciated umpires that called the zone. I understood that if I taught my pitchers to make quality pitches, then they would be successful. Also, if I taught my hitters the strike zone then they could be successful. When umpires would "expand" the zone to meet their own needs, it put my trained hitters at a disadvantage.

I come to umpiring with this mindset. Equity for both pitcher and hitter. I appreciate the comments that I am recieving, but expanding my zone is not a comfortable idea.

You guys preach that we need to call the book, ie gorilla arm balks, etc. but are willing to go outside the book to create new dimensions for the zone. You are right--I don't get it. Why do you do it? To eliminate a game with alot of walks or take 3 hours. Well, if the coaches taught there pitchers how to throw strikes this would not be a problem. Call the zone defined in the book.

Its kinda like letting kids have poor grades and continue to play athletics. If we don't demand more from our kids, how are they going to improve? If I reward pitchers when they don't earn it, then what am I teaching?

Maybe one of the reasons for inadequate pitching in the professional levels is because they were allowed to get away with so much as amateurs.

Couldn't have said it better scyguy....GREAT POST!

[David B]

Originally posted by scyguy
Before I started umpiring I coached HS baseball for 13 years. As a coach my teams won 7 district titles, 4 sectional titles and two trips to the state tournament. As a coach I appreciated umpires that called the zone. I understood that if I taught my pitchers to make quality pitches, then they would be successful. Also, if I taught my hitters the strike zone then they could be successful. When umpires would "expand" the zone to meet their own needs, it put my trained hitters at a disadvantage.

I come to umpiring with this mindset. Equity for both pitcher and hitter. I appreciate the comments that I am recieving, but expanding my zone is not a comfortable idea.

You guys preach that we need to call the book, ie gorilla arm balks, etc. but are willing to go outside the book to create new dimensions for the zone. You are right--I don't get it. Why do you do it? To eliminate a game with alot of walks or take 3 hours. Well, if the coaches taught there pitchers how to throw strikes this would not be a problem. Call the zone defined in the book.

Its kinda like letting kids have poor grades and continue to play athletics. If we don't demand more from our kids, how are they going to improve? If I reward pitchers when they don't earn it, then what am I teaching?

Maybe one of the reasons for inadequate pitching in the professional levels is because they were allowed to get away with so much as amateurs.

i don't even want to go down that road.

The reason for inadequate pitching is now the umpires fault??

Okay, I get it now. NOT!!

The reason for the poor pitching is that the coaches don't teach the kids how to pitch.

Want to watch a pitcher, watch Roger Clemons or Greg Maddux. Now why don't we see more of those guys -

its because it takes hard work to learn how to pitch and also to learn what is the strike zone. How many times do you see Maddux throwing a pitch above the belt on purpose?

Maybe two times in his career. Keep it down and away or down and in.

Oh well, we tried. As other have said best of luck.

Thanks
David

[jicecone]

Ok Scyguy, you want it by the book, you got it. Just make sure you practice what you preach!

In accordance with Federation Rules:

The Circumference of a baseball is 9 to 9-1/4 inches.(Say 9.125 inches)

Using the formula of Cir.= PI (d) and PI= 3.14159

then D=Diameter of the baseball equales 2.9045 inches.

OK, A strike is "a pitch that enters any part of the strike zone in flight and is not struck at" 7.2.1a

If the ball touches the zone, it is technically a strike but, for the purist it has to enter the zone. So I will say 1/8 inch is enough to enter the zone.

Now the plate is 17 inches wide and for the purist the ball can enter 1/8 inch into the zone to be a strike.

So 17 inches minus 2(1/8) inches equales 16 - 3/4 inches. Now lets add the width of the ball on each side of the plate and what do we get, (by the book), 16-3/4 + 2.9045 + 2.9045 = 22.559 inches.

SO BY THE BOOK the strike zone is 22.559 inches. Now don't forget to add this to your upper and lower portion of your strikezone.

I believe that everyone here has more than suggested that the strike zone you believe is unfair to everyone, is in reality , BY THE BOOK.

Sooooo, you can keep your zone or actually call the Rule Book zone, the choice is yours.

GOOD LUCK