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- - F1 moving his glove to give the signals again (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/19730-f1-moving-his-glove-give-signals-again.html)

Quote:

Originally posted by whatgameyouwatchinblue

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB
First we read: "i (sic) was told from (sic) my comish that we will call by the book."

Then we read: "Also i (sic) did not say i (sic) keep coaches in dead ball or in the box."

Which is it?

alright ill bite, Im a blue collar worker who likes to work ball in his spare time, So to make you feel superior what does (sic) mean?

I dont believe that im an OOO. We feel we do teams a diservice if we dont call these kinds of balks in regular season. Once post season begins they will be called. No warnings. '

The turning point for me was last football season. Keeping the coaches off the field was not a priority. Until i keeped getting knicked on my eval. It was easier for me to keep the coaches of the field than it was to miss a playoff assingment for not enforcing a simple rule.

Literally, the Latin word Sic is translated as "thus." However, it is often inserted in parenthesis (sic),
to call attention to the fact that some inaccuracy, mispelling or the like has been literally copied. When one reproduces the writings of another, he will often place (sic) after a such a mistake to indicate that the mistake was made in the original writing.

My question, I guess wasn't clear enough. You state the you will call by the book. Then you give an example of something you will ignore. I simply questioned your consistency. How can you claim you call by the book when you provide evidence that you do not?

Quote:

alright ill bite, Im a blue collar worker who likes to work ball in his spare time, So to make you feel superior what does (sic) mean?

WGYWB,

It looks like GarthB has put on his Substitute Teacher English Endorsement hat. :-) He's indicating that the grammar and/or spelling errors in the quote are not his. They were made by the original writer.

Quote:

Originally posted by CraigD

Quote:

alright ill bite, Im a blue collar worker who likes to work ball in his spare time, So to make you feel superior what does (sic) mean?

WGYWB,

It looks like GarthB has put on his Substitute Teacher English Endorsement hat. :-) He's indicating that the grammar and/or spelling errors in the quote are not his. They were made by the original writer.

Actually, I learned that in a high school social studies class. I didn't know it took a scholar to understand it's usage. I'll try harder to blend in Craig. I would never wish to offend you.

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB

Quote:

Originally posted by CraigD

Quote:

alright ill bite, Im a blue collar worker who likes to work ball in his spare time, So to make you feel superior what does (sic) mean?

WGYWB,

It looks like GarthB has put on his Substitute Teacher English Endorsement hat. :-) He's indicating that the grammar and/or spelling errors in the quote are not his. They were made by the original writer.

Actually, I learned that in a high school social studies class. I didn't know it took a scholar to understand it's usage. I'll try harder to blend in Craig. I would never wish to offend you.

Actually, when you wrote "I didn't know it took a scholar to understand it's (sic) usage," you gave a perfect example for anyone wanting to use "sic."

ROTFLOL!

not gonna turn into another pissin match. Is it Garth?

What i meant by call it by the book was in regards to the balks.

What i meant about keeping coaches in the dead ball area was in regards to the buckets. not the coaches.

I have seen a few OOO and im not even close. Call what you want, but in my area we dont warn past preseason.

Quote:

Originally posted by Carl Childress

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB

Quote:

Originally posted by CraigD

Quote:

alright ill bite, Im a blue collar worker who likes to work ball in his spare time, So to make you feel superior what does (sic) mean?

WGYWB,

It looks like GarthB has put on his Substitute Teacher English Endorsement hat. :-) He's indicating that the grammar and/or spelling errors in the quote are not his. They were made by the original writer.

Actually, I learned that in a high school social studies class. I didn't know it took a scholar to understand it's usage. I'll try harder to blend in Craig. I would never wish to offend you.

Actually, when you wrote "I didn't know it took a scholar to understand it's (sic) usage," you gave a perfect example for anyone wanting to use "sic."

ROTFLOL!

I, Garth Benham, do hereby swear and affirm that Carl Childress is always correct in any issue, discussion, disagreement, philosophy whether he has freaking clue of what he is talking about or not and whether or not he is being honest or not. Be it known by all persons that they should accept his word on everything and it matters not what anyone else thinks or believes. Carl is God.

Quote:

I, Garth Benham, do hereby swear and affirm...

C'mon Garth, add that to your signature! :)

Quote:

Actually, I learned that in a high school social studies class. I didn't know it took a scholar to understand it's usage. I'll try harder to blend in Craig. I would never wish to offend you.

GarthB,

I'm hardly offended, but it seems that you might be. Notice that I included a smiley face after suggesting you were putting on your Substitute Teacher English Endorsement hat.

The fact that you added (sic) into the quote struck me as funny after reading your interaction with Carl C regarding your teaching credentials/endorsements.

Since your inclusion of (sic) didn't do anything but point out his grammar mistakes, it appeared to be OOO of the grammar type. If you can't see that and get a smile out of it, you might need to get some rest.

Quote:

Originally posted by whatgameyouwatchinblue
not gonna turn into another pissin match. Is it Garth?

What i meant by call it by the book was in regards to the balks.

What i meant about keeping coaches in the dead ball area was in regards to the buckets. not the coaches.

I have seen a few OOO and im not even close. Call what you want, but in my area we dont warn past preseason.

No pissing contest...I didn't understand your reference to the coaches, that's all.

As for the glove deal that started this thread, we have been instructed by our FED clincian not to call it. He stated, "It's a traditional sign by the pitcher for another run of the signals, no one in the park misunderstands it."

Quote:

Originally posted by akalsey

Quote:

I, Garth Benham, do hereby swear and affirm...

C'mon Garth, add that to your signature! :)

That's an idea.

Quote:

Originally posted by GarthB

Quote:

[i]Originally posted by whatgameyouwatchinblue

alright ill bite, Im a blue collar worker who likes to work ball in his spare time, So to make you feel superior what does (sic) mean?

[/B]

Literally, the Latin word Sic is translated as "thus." However, it is often inserted in parenthesis (sic),
to call attention to the fact that some inaccuracy, mispelling or the like has been literally copied. When one reproduces the writings of another, he will often place (sic) after a such a mistake to indicate that the mistake was made in the original writing.

My question, I guess wasn't clear enough. You state the(sic) you will call by the book. [/B][/QUOTE]:D

Quote:

Originally posted by Carl Childress

Quote:

Originally posted by officialtony
Would it be out of line to give a warning to both teams the first time I see that glove-for-a-new-sign move (I confess, I have not seen that yet in two years - I only do high school ball )? I want to enforce the rules, but that is one I'm guessing most kids don't know. Just asking. If not, I accept the wisdom of the balk call because it is a FED rule. I hope I never see it. Takes me off the hook for being OOO in some eyes.

My association hosts a meeting with all the area coaches. This season, I was in charge. As the rules interpreter, likely I'll be in charge next season as well.

This year I specifically went over 6.1.2d. During scrimmages we instructed our umpires to remind the coaches of the NFHS ruling. Of course, that play has been in the casebook since 1998!

We have new head coaches every year, so we carefully cover the NFHS balk regulations. These new guys, often straight from some college team, are generally surprised by the specificity of FED balk rules.

When an out-of-area team comes to call, we always warn the pitchers -- more than once. (We want them to come back. So do the home town coaches.)

Our experience is that when coaches and pitchers know what the umpires will enforce, they stay away from infractions.

Finally, we believe that when we don't enforce the rules (where there's no wiggle room), we do our teams a disservice when they leave the area.

Don't misunderstand: We ignore plenty of rules. Everybody does. David B, while wrong about this - grin -, points out that fact very well.

Before you get uptight and start yelling that I'm always ignoring some rule that I don't like, recognize the rules I'm talking about here are the proprietary rules, those that are unique to the NFHS.

I can list a few:<ol><li>penalty for touching ball with illegal glove</li><li>no pick-off from the wind-up</li><li>DH bats for any player</li><li>moving two hands simultaneously on the rubber is the start of a pitch</li><li>step with both feet into dead-ball territory kills play and live runners get one base</li><li>jewelry and associated 3-3-1 infractions</li><li>dead ball appeals</li><li>hurdling over defensive players</li><li>Etc.</ol>People who believe enforcing those rules is OOO should rethink their commitment to the rule of law.

[Edited by Carl Childress on Apr 16th, 2005 at 11:29 PM]

Carl good points. Since we start playoffs this week, I spent part of yesterday going over some of these points with some of our veteran umpires.

Most agreed that they have called the "gorilla" arm movement, but they have warned about the glove movement (about the rollover of the signs). We have all called and will continue to that movement of both hands/arms is the beginning of the pitch.

We agreed that we will continue that practice next week in the playoffs since most of the teams coming in will be from out of our area and we really don't know what they've had called during the season.

As you note so well, we like our returning customers.

However, as you know, if a coach wants to press the issue (like he actually knows the rule), then we have an obligation to call it.

Thanks
David

Most agreed that they have called the "gorilla" arm movement, but they have warned about the glove movement (about the rollover of the signs). We have all called and will continue to that movement of both hands/arms is the beginning of the pitch.

We agreed that we will continue that practice next week in the playoffs since most of the teams coming in will be from out of our area and we really don't know what they've had called during the season.

And theres the problem with picking and choosing what balks your gonna call. What happens when one of the teams you service goes out of your cover area and gets balked for rolling his glove? Then that umpires gonna here from that coach that has never been called in his home area.

Regarding rolling the glove when the pitcher is unsure of the sign, I can think of a good umpire reason that you might want to ignore this balk. If the pitcher makes a pitch that the catcher is not prepared to catch, who pays the price?

You the umpire, that's who. We're the one that gets nailed with a fast ball when the catcher thought a curve was coming. As far as I'm concerned, anything that the pitcher and catcher have to do to get on the same sheet of music is in my best interest so I'm not going to penalize them. A mild warning will do, because if I call a balk, the pitcher might guess on the signal the next time he's not sure.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bob Lyle
Regarding rolling the glove when the pitcher is unsure of the sign, I can think of a good umpire reason that you might want to ignore this balk. If the pitcher makes a pitch that the catcher is not prepared to catch, who pays the price?

You the umpire, that's who. We're the one that gets nailed with a fast ball when the catcher thought a curve was coming. As far as I'm concerned, anything that the pitcher and catcher have to do to get on the same sheet of music is in my best interest so I'm not going to penalize them. A mild warning will do, because if I call a balk, the pitcher might guess on the signal the next time he's not sure.

I certainly have to disagree with your reasoning here. If the only way the pitcher can acknowledge he needs a new signal is to wave his glove ( illegaly under FED rules ), then he is in trouble anyway. A simple shake of the head would suffice or he can say " give it to me again " or any other multitude of ways would be much more appropriate - and legal. Allowing him an illegal move on the premise that you are protecting yourself from an improperly chosen and unsuspected pitch is weak reasoning.
Unfortunately, you are admitting that you are not abiding by FED rules because you state yourself " . . .you might want to ignore the balk . . ". You freely admit that this is a balk and you are not going to call it. I oppose that reasoning and hope you would reconsider your thinking on this.