Bases loaded, 1 out. Popup to F6, IFF is called, catch is made. R2 had wandered off of the bag, and tries to get back. F4 receives throw with foot on bag prior to R2's return, but ump rules the runner safe since he was not tagged. He said that batter would have been out regardless of whether popup was caught, so R2 had to be tagged off base.

The umpire was wrong. An Infield Fly doesn't remove the runner's responsibility to touch the base after the ball is caught (touched) and it doesn't remove the defense's right to appeal the runner's mistake.

All the IFF rule does is remove the subsequent force on the runners since the batter is out (nobody left to force the runners). You still have to tag up (as in any fly ball) and the defense can still appeal to the base (which is what your play is) for a runner leaving early.

Had the ball dropped and the runners run THEN the runners would have to be tagged as the IFF removes the FORCE.

Had an IFF a few weeks ago, R1 and R2, 2B camped under it about 6 -8 feet in the outfield grass directly behind 2B. I called IFF. 2B drops ball!! Ordinary effort? Yes!! Coach says nothing but fans go crazy. They are yelling at me that IFF cannot be called when ball is in the outfield grass. Made for a "fun" four or five minutes. When inning was over, fan nicely asked me about the IFF being caught in the grass. I calmly stated the conditions for IFF and stated that the rule was designed more to protect the runners. In fact, a smart infielder could let the ball fall and double up the runners. He understood, but this old guy was still upset. He said "I seen 5000 game and never seen in called in the grass". I looked at him and said, "get a rulebook, then we can talk".

I'd tell him he doesn't watch enough baseball then.

If I'm walking to the car and someone's being polite I usually don't ignore them.

If they ask nicely, I might discuss a ruling between innings.

[/B][/QUOTE]If they ask nicely, I might discuss a ruling between innings. [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh, no! You're kidding, aren't you? You wouldn't really go to the fence to talk to a fan between innings. Say it ain't so, Joe.

Aaarghh!

How does this happen if you're in short right field (base umpire) or on a foul line (plate umpire)?

sure I will respond if asked in a polite manner. Common courtesy. What is wrong with that? There is enough jerks in this world without me ignoring someone who ask a question polietly.

Rich,
I don't work the large parks, most fences our within 20' of the foul line. Sound has a way of traveling that far even if it isn't spoken loudly.

Hey, you have your way of doing things and I have mine. I have no problem with this.

UFB,
 

An umpire would explain a call to a FAN during a game!

Hahahahahahahahahaha!

I think I have heard everything now.

Pluuuezzze.

Tim,
you are at the top of the food chain and I am a lowly bottom feeder trying to work my work up. I will learn as I gain more knowledge from you, Bob, etc.

Some of our parks in the younger ages have maybe 10 feet at the most from foul line to fence. I don't have a problem explaining something odd to the parents during a time delay. E.G. why a batter hit in the head by the pitch wasn't getting awarded 1st base. Of course 20 people at these games is a big crowd.

For the teenagers and the adults forget it I have nothing to say to the fans ever unless they are politely asking while I am changing or going back to the car after the game.

Well almost never I did call to the scorekeeper once to "get that woman's phone number" after one of the moms in her lawnchair back of the plate told me I had a cute butt lol! I think the catcher was seriously embarrassed by her mom.

[Edited by jxt127 on Apr 13th, 2005 at 10:29 AM]

Re: UFB,
 

Weellll.... [gulp]

I'm in a small community. Sometimes, esp. in youth ball, it seems to make sense. I once even stopped a major a$$-ragging I was getting from one of those 20-foot-from the foul line fan-gaggles in a Legion game. Convinced 'em [in under a minute :cool:] that I was not only right, but an OK guy, too.

Do I recomend it: nope. See: if'n ya' want to be treated like a top umpire, best act like one.

Will I ever do it again? Ehhh, dunno. I got dinged on my eval for that Legion game for it; felt real stupid, 'cause I KNEW it was coming. Sometimes there is an Assn guy at the fence w/ "vital" info to share during the game [where are we meeting for the post-game beverage & gabfest?] & a fan takes the opportunity to walk over & inquire. S#!t happens.

Let's just acknowledge for everyone that yours is the wrong way.

If you are trying to move up the food chain, then act like the umpire you want to be. Top umpires do not have between-inning conversations with fans and generally don't talk with their partners either (there are reasons why you may want to occasionally have a few words with your partner, but even this is rare).

When I work the bases, I head to short right field between innings and stand at reasonable attention until the ball is thrown down, at which point I trot to the A position to start the next inning. This is how most trained umpires work. The closer the fence, the farther away I stand. Why would I ever want to be approachable to someone outside the fence while the game is occurring? I have a job to do and they're not part of it.

Many games I wish my partner well after the plate meeting and we don't talk again until after the game ends and I'm shaking his hand.

Rich wrote:

"Many games I wish my partner well after the plate meeting and we don't talk again until after the game ends and I'm shaking his hand."

------------------------------------------------

I do not remember the last time I spoke with my partner (between innings) DURING a game.

As BU I head to right center field and as a PU I walk up a baseline on the proper side.

If I see my BU just slippin' in . . . I give him the "stop sign".

Of course if we NEED to talk between innings I give him the proper sign (hand puppet) and then meet concerning the issue.

I just checked my archived files of BU and UT posts, Tim, I think I found it. You wrote about it in a thread similar to this.

It was July 17, 1978 (Which was a Monday, I believe.) Weather was dry with a slight breeze and you had the plate in the first of two.

[Edited by GarthB on Apr 13th, 2005 at 11:50 AM]

thanks Rich, that is excellent advice. This was a rare occasion and I usually never interact with anyone. I should of ignored him but my mind said that he was asking nice and so I replied. I will know better next time. Thanks

Fair enough. He11, I'll even acknowledge that the "trained umpire" way is the only "correct" way.

But let's also acknowledge that the training is predicated upon the existence of conditions that render the entire discussion moot. Not too much opportunity for interaction between the fans and the umpires in your typical pro or major college ball park - fans seldom can get themselves within 10-20 feet of the A position in the highest levels of ball.

Lets also agree that some "real" umpires sometimes find themselves working in, shall we say, "casual" conditions: small community park, everyone knows everyone, including the umpires, it really is all about the kids and having fun... you can remember that kinda ball, can't you?

And while we're at it, let's admit that "ignore the fans" is a damn sight harder to do that it is to say or write. The current top-rated ump [does D1 college for another group] in my assn. got himself suspended by our board a while back because the bully-ragging from the "cheap seats" along the fence got so bad that he lost it & made some comments and gestures [from the A position] that drew complaints from our client's dugout on the 3dB side.
Talking to that bunch of apes probably wouldn't have helped, but sometimes acknowledging a fan comment or inquiry can defuse an otherwise ugly situation, and is less work than spending energy trying to shut 'em out.

Will it help you "move up"? No, if you want to move up the food chain, best act the part.

Does it make you a sorry, pathetic joke if, on occasion, you speak to a fan during the game? Boy, I hope not.

And, BTW, like you, Rich: if a fan comes up to the "locker room" between our vehicles after the game and is polite, I'll explain all they want. I DO recomend this approach.

cb,

I agree with everything you wrote. However, the poster I was responding to made it seem like "I'll do it my way, you do it yours" as if talking with fans and explaining things between innings is a good practice.

We all work summer ball. We all work casual games with familiar partners and probably talk too much during those games and probably chat up the occasional person in the lawn chair sitting near DBT in right field. I won't deny that -- I'd be a hypocrite if I did.

But this time of the season is a bit more serious for me. Maybe not for the person I was responding to.

I thought so. It's just sometimes we all [me, too] write like the nut-cutter games, and the skills/ behaviors appropriate thereto, are the only ones worth discussing.

cb,
 

ANYTIME I work a game in the town of Portland fans behind the plate are seldom more than 20' from my back.

At one PIL field the screen behind the dish is less than 12' from home plate. I have lots of chances to "interface" with fans if I select.

I choose to only start conversation with fans IF they are a GLM (MiLF) in a halter top and they appear to be unescorted.

Rich,
my choice of words was inappropriate. I take my job as an official VERY seriously. I am not sure your motivations in your comments, but surely you have good reason. Your posts are constructive and insightful. I will take your advice and refrain from contact with anyone other than coaches.

Let me just say that my motivation is to be perfect. I love to officiate. I am very content to do HS ball and have NO interest in college, etc. Being a bottom feeder is problably not accurate. I am better than that. But if the top of the food chain is college, pro, etc, then by choice I will never be there. But your advice is what all officials should do from LL to pros, so thank you.

Sorry for the late reply. Perhaps in a coach rated game (like school ball around here) I will stay away from my partner. Hey, even though we get paid on Long Island more than you guys, it isn't enough to worry about what these coaches think. It isn't my profession although there is a level of professionalism involved. I do my job on the field and rarely have any troubles (the few real idiot coaches may be an occasional exception) and I talk to my regular partner who I have worked with for years regularly between innings. No one cares and it has no impact on the games we get (and we do get some of the good ones). If I don't have my regular partner I am much less chatty or not at all.
Regarding fan interaction, I don't look for it, but if asked a question in a nice manner I will answer it. If a fan says something complimentary I will usually acknowledge it and usually will make a joking comment about them liking me now, but wait until I blow one. Life is easier when you do your job and take it easy. Yes, you are getting paid and need to display some level of professionalism and earn your money, but it is only a game which many of the participants forget. So you can be out there deadly serious and I will continue to go out there and do what I do. My competence will continue to be rarely questioned, I will earn my money, and I might even have a little fun while I am doing it. There are too may times that you have to be super serious, and you know them, so enjoy things when you are able.

Ed H