Calling Balks and the value of reading these forums.

[nickrego]

I called two balks yesterday that I had never seen, but had read about on umpire forums in years past. It was a good thing, because it enabled me to better explain the balks to the coach, who did not think they were balks (I hope they were).

Balk #1: LHP comes set. Does a jump move and throws to 1st base. Pivot foot lands behind the rubber, non-pivot foot moves backwards and lands towards 3rd base. (Coach felt that because the pivot foot landed behind the rubber, the pitcher had legally stepped off.)

Balk #2: LHP comes set. Breaks his hands and begins a throwing motion towards 1st base while keeping both feet still. Then, as he is throwing to 1st base, he steps off the rubber with his pivot foot, which lands behind the rubber and backwards towards 3rd base. Non-pivot foot never moves. (Coach felt that because the pitcher had stepped off the rubber before letting go of the ball, he had legally stepped off.)

Both moves looked well practiced and were very quick. I had a great view from ‘B’ position to see the timing of the motions though.


[Edited by nickrego on Mar 19th, 2005 at 03:38 AM]

[largeone59]

These sound like pretty akward balks. They're kinda hard to picture, but i'd like to know what you explained to the coach so i know why and what to say if i ever get one of these.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by largeone59
These sound like pretty akward balks. They're kinda hard to picture, but i'd like to know what you explained to the coach so i know why and what to say if i ever get one of these.

IF* you're going to explain to the coach, use the words from the rule book -- didn't step toward the base, made a motion and stopped (or started and stopped), didn't stop, etc. That's it. Period.


* -- Some would say not to explain the balk at all.

[David B]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

IF* you're going to explain to the coach, use the words from the rule book -- didn't step toward the base, made a motion and stopped (or started and stopped), didn't stop, etc. That's it. Period.


* -- Some would say not to explain the balk at all.

Very well put. Say as little as possible, but use as much of the rule book as possible.

Called a balk today and coach said would you explain to the kid what he did wrong??

I said, coach that's your job. Tell him don't turn his shoulders after coming to the set position.

Thanks
David

[Rich]

Originally posted by David B

Very well put. Say as little as possible, but use as much of the rule book as possible.

Called a balk today and coach said would you explain to the kid what he did wrong??

I said, coach that's your job. Tell him don't turn his shoulders after coming to the set position.

Thanks
David

I always tell the pitcher what he did wrong while I'm cleaning off the pitcher's plate and adjusting my indiclickercounter.

[David Emerling]

Balk #1: LHP comes set. Does a jump move and throws to 1st base. Pivot foot lands behind the rubber, non-pivot foot moves backwards and lands towards 3rd base. (Coach felt that because the pivot foot landed behind the rubber, the pitcher had legally stepped off.)

I'm having a hard time visualizing this move. I've even tried to act it out. A left-hander doing a "jump move" toward first just sounds weird. Usually, a "jump move" involves making a 180-degree (or more) turn with the body. Since a left-hander is facing first, I have a hard time visualizing his jump, or, why he would jump.

Did you mean that the LHP is throwing to THIRD?

The non-pivot foot landing toward 3rd while throwing to 1st seems like something only Gumby could do.

What balk rule has the pitcher in this move violated?

I'm not questioning your judgment - I'm just trying to figure out WHAT the pitcher did and WHAT you thought was wrong with it.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Edited by David Emerling on Mar 21st, 2005 at 01:21 AM]

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by David Emerling
Balk #1: LHP comes set. Does a jump move and throws to 1st base. Pivot foot lands behind the rubber, non-pivot foot moves backwards and lands towards 3rd base. (Coach felt that because the pivot foot landed behind the rubber, the pitcher had legally stepped off.)

I'm having a hard time visualizing this move. I've even tried to act it out. A left-hander doing a "jump move" toward first just sounds weird. Usually, a "jump move" involves making a 180-degree (or more) turn with the body. Since a left-hander is facing first, I have a hard time visualizing his jump, or, why he would jump.

Did you mean that the LHP is throwing to THIRD?

The non-pivot foot landing toward 3rd while throwing to 1st seems like something on Gumby could do.

What balk rule has the pitcher in this move violated?

I'm not questioning your judgment - I'm just trying to figure out WHAT the pitcher did and WHAT you thought was wrong with it.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

I have to agree with David on this.. makes no sense on that first move.. Also seems to me the second one is legal as he stepped off before he threw. If the pivot foot was still in the air when he thrwos it, you have something but if it was truly as fast as you say it is then to me and what I am visulising I cannot see how. He has to break his hands before he throws over and if he is off before he throws then there is nothing wrong there. If he hesitated before he stepped off and after he broke his hands then I can see a balk there but again, they way you described it as beeing very quick I cannot see a balk for that either.

[Edited by cowbyfan1 on Mar 20th, 2005 at 02:24 AM]

[nickrego]

Balk #1 makes absolutely no sense. But he did it. Why, I don't know. But he did, and I called it. He left both feet and landed as I described. He could have made a better move, with more on the ball by just lifting his non-pivot foot and stepping towards the base.

For largeone59,

Here is why they are balks...

Balk #1: When any kind of a jump move is made by the pitcher, both feet must land in front of the rubber, and the non-pivot foot must gain ground and direction towards the base being thrown to.

Balk #2: After coming set, a pitcher can only do three things. A) Deliver a pitch to the plate. B) Step towards and throw to a base, or feint if not 1st. C) Step off the rubber. In this balk, the pitcher broke his hands, began his throwing motion to 1st, and then stepped off. Not allowed. If he is going to step off, he must do it before beginning any throwing or pitching motion.

[cowbyfan1]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

I always tell the pitcher what he did wrong while I'm cleaning off the pitcher's plate and adjusting my indiclickercounter.

Guess some people cannot leave well enough alone.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
[

I always tell the pitcher what he did wrong while I'm cleaning off the pitcher's plate and adjusting my indiclickercounter. [/B][/QUOTE]

I tried that once and ended up flat on my face. Falling over the excessively dirty pitching plate without taking my eye off my indiclickercounter between pitches is terribly difficult, let alone down right embarrassing. Then, getting up and trying to remember how the pitcher balked!!!

Im going to volleyball, all I have to do is toot and point.
Im done in 50 min and it's the same fee.

[GarthB]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cowbyfan1

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


I always tell the pitcher what he did wrong while I'm cleaning off the pitcher's plate and adjusting my indiclickercounter.

Guess some people cannot leave well enough alone.

Rich, my guess is you were just following what you were told by nameless pro-umpires at a major clinic in the midwest somewheres, huh?

[Edited by GarthB on Mar 20th, 2005 at 01:23 PM]

[cbfoulds]

Nick:
I agree that both of your sitches are [at least probably] balks. However, there are parts of your explanations to large I could not disagree with more.

Balk #1: When any kind of a jump move is made by the pitcher, both feet must land in front of the rubber, and the non-pivot foot must gain ground and direction towards the base being thrown to.

The non-italicised part is correct [and the reason why this was probably a balk]: I don't know where the part I put in italics comes from. If F1 does his Mexican Jumping Bean act with his hands together, and lands with one foot in front and the pivot behind the rubber before he separates his hands: it seems to me that he has met the rule req's for "stepping off". Is there a Case Book play or manual reference I have forgotten?

'Course, Coach was wrong: if his hands separated before his pivot foot landed on the ground behind the rubber, then he did not "step off" prior to the pick attempt, and his stride foot must gain distance and direction toward the base, ot it's a balk. I am presuming that this is what happened, and why you correctly balked him.

Balk #2: After coming set, a pitcher can only do three things. A) Deliver a pitch to the plate. B) Step towards and throw to a base, or feint if not 1st. C) Step off the rubber. In this balk, the pitcher broke his hands, began his throwing motion to 1st, and then stepped off. Not allowed. If he is going to step off, he must do it before beginning any throwing or pitching motion.

The pitching motion part I'll give you, but the part about any step off has to be before F1 starts to throw to a base is just wrong. He can't hesitate or double-clutch, true: but it's not separately a balk if he steps back off the rubber. Coach is wrong here, again, stepping off AFTER separating his hands is no defense to failing to gain distance and direction. Your reason for this balk is adequately explained in the first post: "Non-piviot foot never moves"

Bob's advice is sound, to the extent you need to explain a balk, stick to words out of the Rule Book. Any time you need to resort to "interpretations" that are not near word-for-word out of the text, there is a better-than-even chance you will be wrong; either in the explanation or in calling the balk itself.

cowboy:

If he separates his hands [after coming set], THEN steps off, and never moves his stride foot, that's a balk. Always.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by cbfoulds
If F1 does his Mexican Jumping Bean act with his hands together, and lands with one foot in front and the pivot behind the rubber before he separates his hands: it seems to me that he has met the rule req's for "stepping off". Is there a Case Book play or manual reference I have forgotten?

The jump-step is considered to be a move from the rubber; it does not constitute a legal disengagement. The point being, if a pitcher executes a jump step towards 1B and does not throw, he has balked.

[cbfoulds]

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

The jump-step is considered to be a move from the rubber; it does not constitute a legal disengagement. The point being, if a pitcher executes a jump step towards 1B and does not throw, he has balked.

True enough for a RHP and a feint to 1st.

This was a LHP, & he did throw.

My disagreement was with the "any kind of jump move.../ both feet MUST land in front of the rubber...." assertion. If a LHP "goes airborne" w/ both feet simultaneously, his pivot landing behind the rubber, it seems to me that he has probably "stepped off", as I am aware of no precedent to the contrary.

Just 'cause he "jumps" don't necessarily make it the kind of "jump-step" to which you are referring.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by cbfoulds
Just 'cause he "jumps" don't necessarily make it the kind of "jump-step" to which you are referring.

If he *jumps* then I don't think he's *stepped* off.