Type A/B obs

[scyguy]

David,
yes it is a simple play if you kill it with the slide into 3rd, then the 3B wouldn't even throw ball to second. But isn't this a delayed dead ball situation and you would be taking the opportunity away from the defense to throw out the BR at second?

Your second senerio makes good sense. Even though the BR advanced to third on the wild throw, we could send him back to second since we can only legally place R1 at third. This is more comfortable for me since I do not have to assume anything about R1 advancing home. As you say, we have no rule to allow runner to score, obs only protected him to third.

Thanks, I like this idea better than abandonment or allowing runner to touch home after going into dugout.

David I just thought about what if BR does not reach third safely? Say the wild throw gets away from 2B, BR gets up and tries to advance to third. 2B retrieves ball and throws out BR at third.

As Tim would say, this is crazy, but it could happen.

[Edited by scyguy on Mar 11th, 2005 at 01:13 PM]

[David B]

Originally posted by scyguy
David,
yes it is a simple play if you kill it with the slide into 3rd, then the 3B wouldn't even throw ball to second. But isn't this a delayed dead ball situation and you would be taking the opportunity away from the defense to throw out the BR at second?

Your second senerio makes good sense. Even though the BR advanced to third on the wild throw, we could send him back to second since we can only legally place R1 at third. This is more comfortable for me since I do not have to assume anything about R1 advancing home. As you say, we have no rule to allow runner to score, obs only protected him to third.

Thanks, I like this idea better than abandonment or allowing runner to touch home after going into dugout.

David I just thought about what if BR does not reach third safely? Say the wild throw gets away from 2B, BR gets up and tries to advance to third. 2B retrieves ball and throws out BR at third.

As Tim would say, this is crazy, but it could happen.

[Edited by scyguy on Mar 11th, 2005 at 01:13 PM]

I would kill the play. This is similiar to type A obstruction in OBR rules (when the obstructed runner is being played on)

I looked in the case book and couldn't find a case play, and I don't have my BRD with me it might have a play in it.

Who made the mistake to start with? DEFENSE.

Why should I try to even think about rewarding the defense when they messed up to start with.

So, with the obstructed runner being played on call time and make the award at that point. Now if the runner at third is safe then play on of course.

This avoids all of the other what ifs.

And its going to look crazy with the umpire having to explain why I called him out at third, but he was really safe because he was obstructed, but I didn't want to ....

Thanks
David

[David B]

Originally posted by jicecone
David,

In accordance with 8-3-2, I believe that is the "minimum" award.

Did I miss something here? He was obstructed going to third. So he gets third.

Did I miss a play here?

If so disregard my post

Thanks
Daivd

[scyguy]

David I agree with killing being the simplest way, but does FED give me the authority to do so? If this is a DDB situation, then I have to give the defense the opportunity to make a play on BR at second. And if so, the ball is still alive, so if BR gets up and is thrown out at third then I have an out. Now I can kill it, go back and award R1 third base.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by scyguy
David I agree with killing being the simplest way, but does FED give me the authority to do so? If this is a DDB situation, then I have to give the defense the opportunity to make a play on BR at second. And if so, the ball is still alive, so if BR gets up and is thrown out at third then I have an out. Now I can kill it, go back and award R1 third base.

No, you can't kill it (by rule) in FED.

So, on the play you describe, the call on the play at third is "Safe on the obstruction". (If you call that loudly enough, play will stop and you won't have the rest of the mess.)

If play continues, let it continue, then put everyone where you think they would have ended up (with the obstructed runner getting at least one base) -- if BR gets thrown out at third, then he's out -- the obstruction didn't affect that play.

[Kaliix]

I may be wrong on this, but from reading the FED rule book, it looks like you have a dead ball when you make an award after a runner is obstructed.

FED Rule 5 Article 3...The ball becomes dead when time is taken to make an award when a catcher or any fielder obstructs a runner,..."

There is a similar note under 8-3-2.

It sounds like when you take the time to make an award of a base, and in the case of the runner being played on, the ball becomes dead because at that point, you have to call hime safe on obstruction and make an the award.

Or am I reading this wrong? and they mean that when time is taken as when the umpire calls time and makes the award, which may be done after the play on a delayed dead ball?

I wish I had a case book...

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Kaliix
I may be wrong on this, but from reading the FED rule book, it looks like you have a dead ball when you make an award after a runner is obstructed.

FED Rule 5 Article 3...The ball becomes dead when time is taken to make an award when a catcher or any fielder obstructs a runner,..."

There is a similar note under 8-3-2.

It sounds like when you take the time to make an award of a base, and in the case of the runner being played on, the ball becomes dead because at that point, you have to call hime safe on obstruction and make an the award.

Or am I reading this wrong? and they mean that when time is taken as when the umpire calls time and makes the award, which may be done after the play on a delayed dead ball?

I wish I had a case book...

Yes, the ball is dead when you make the award.

You don't make the award until all play is finished.

[Kaliix]

Bob,
I believe you when you say you make don't make the award until after all play is finished.

But if you call at third is "Safe on the obstruction", isn't that kinda making the award? You just awarded the player the base because of obstruction.

Again, I don't have a case book, so if you could cite the proper case book play for all of us, that would be very helpful.

[Roger Greene]

This is spoken to very clearly in the various softball rule codes which very closely resemble the Fed baseball code on obstruction.

In those, the ball is dead if the obstructed runner is tagged out while being awarded protection by the umpire.

As a practical mattter, I have experienced no problems administering the baseball rule in that manner. Most coaches in this area seem to expect it as that is the way they have seen it applied in softball and type b (OBR) baseball obstruction.

I will leave it to others to argue if the award (ie: the predicate to declaring the ball dead) is when you declare the runner safe due to the obstruction, or when all continuing action is finished.

Roger Greene

[Rich]

Originally posted by jicecone
David,

In accordance with 8-3-2, I believe that is the "minimum" award.

The runner was thrown out at third after the obstruction. There's no way, in the play provided, that the runner is going to be protected beyond third.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

The runner was thrown out at third after the obstruction. There's no way, in the play provided, that the runner is going to be protected beyond third.

Your right, but I believe Mr. Jenkins described the situation above. He used the words, "at least one base".