Accidental appeal and mechanics question.

Illini_Ref · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 07:57am

OK, I know this has been discussed to exhaustion before, but here we go again. If I read correctly, the NFHS has re-implemented the accidental appeal. Case 8.2.3(?) has an * beside it denoting it is revised. It states that if a runner misses first but beats the play, and then the first-baseman "casually" drags his foot across the bag the runner is out. This is the accidental appeal. Am I correct?

Also, because of this is there a mechanics change? Say a BR beats the throw to first. The first baseman's foot is on the bag. The runner crosses the base but misses it, then the throw arrives. Before I called the runner safe if he was a step past the base and waited for an appeal. I assume I immediately call him out now. Correct?

cowbyfan1 · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 08:02am

In fed yes. The force is still considered to on.

greymule · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 08:19am

You mean they got rid of the accidental appeal and then reinstated it?

BR hits a ball off the fence, misses 1B, touches 2B, and on the slide at 3B, the tag is a little late. "Safe!" says the ump, and then, "Out!" for missing 1B.

Hard to believe.

cbfoulds · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 08:34am

The RUle Book still says "no accidental appeal", but: yeah, the new/revised case seems to say otherwise.

Rich Ives · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 09:10am

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
You mean they got rid of the accidental appeal and then reinstated it?

BR hits a ball off the fence, misses 1B, touches 2B, and on the slide at 3B, the tag is a little late. "Safe!" says the ump, and then, "Out!" for missing 1B.

Hard to believe.

I think you're confusing an accidental appeal with the No-appeal-ump-calls-out of old.

In your play there would be no out at 1B if no appeal was made.

Illini_Ref · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 09:36am

In the play from the NF casebook this seems to be an accidental appeal. The case was revised, so I am assuming that it has changed. Is this only at first base. This is a missed base, so it is an appeal play, and the manner in which it is described in the case book looks like the "accidental appeal".

My other question is this. In the play from the case book, the fielder touches the base AFTER the runner missed it. What if the fielder catches the ball with his foot touching the base AFTER the runner is past the base, but missed touching the base. This used to be taught as a "safe" call and you wait for the appeal. Now am I supposed to call an immediate out, and treat it as an "accidental appeal"? Also, does this apply at other bases?

gordon30307 · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 09:44am

Fed Rules there are no accidental appeals. Play at first runner clearly beats throw and misses the base 1B has foot on the base.. Mechanic is FU calls safe. Play must be appealed to register an out. Applies to all bases.

Illini_Ref · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 09:53am

I agree gordon, but the casebook says that if the fielder catches the ball off the base and the runner misses the base, the fielder can "casually" step on the base to record the out. Sounds like an accidental appeal. The case is listed as "revised" so I am unclear just what the NF is saying to us.

gordon30307 · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 10:55am

Quote:

Originally posted by Illini_Ref
I agree gordon, but the casebook says that if the fielder catches the ball off the base and the runner misses the base, the fielder can "casually" step on the base to record the out. Sounds like an accidental appeal. The case is listed as "revised" so I am unclear just what the NF is saying to us.

The case does say F3 is required to appeal the missed base. I'm not certain what the case is trying to tell us. There is no accidental appeal using Fed Rules. I agree on the one hand the case suggests an accidental appeal was made, however in the end it says F3 must appeal. It does seem contradicting unless I'm missing something.

jicecone · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 10:56am

BRD 2005 Pg 9 Sit 1. partial quote,

"EXCEPT:If the action is continuing and the tagged base is a "force" base, (change) the defense makes the appeal merely by "stepping on the missed base. (8.2.3)"

The Ex. play 1-1 discusses B1 beating out a infield hit and missing the bag. "F3 takes the throw and "casually steps on first." Ruling: In FED, since the defense was making a "force" play" as a result of continuing action," B1 is out."

Carl then states that, "It's likely the FED ruling will be modified."

Illini_Ref · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 10:58am

I can't find last years book, so I don't know wht "revision" was made to the case.

gordon30307 · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 11:03am

Quote:

Originally posted by MrUmpire
"Casual" does not equal "accidental."

There are no casual appeals. I'm not a mind reader I can't tell the difference between casual and accidental. Same play only this time the first baseman casually walks to 1B to kick the dirt off the bag is that casual or accidental?

gordon30307 · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 11:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by jicecone
BRD 2005 Pg 9 Sit 1. partial quote,

"EXCEPT:If the action is continuing and the tagged base is a "force" base, (change) the defense makes the appeal merely by "stepping on the missed base. (8.2.3)"

The Ex. play 1-1 discusses B1 beating out a infield hit and missing the bag. "F3 takes the throw and "casually steps on first." Ruling: In FED, since the defense was making a "force" play" as a result of continuing action," B1 is out."

Carl then states that, "It's likely the FED ruling will be modified."

Lets see they did away with the accidental appeal yet this play cetainly seems accidental. Hope I never see this in a Fed. Game. As Ricky says it would be hard to "splain".

Illini_Ref · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 11:33am

Quote:

Originally posted by gordon30307
Fed Rules there are no accidental appeals. Play at first runner clearly beats throw and misses the base 1B has foot on the base.. Mechanic is FU calls safe. Play must be appealed to register an out. Applies to all bases.

I use the same mechanic, but under the "continuing aciton" section we may be wrong.

gordon30307 · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Mar 04, 2005, 11:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by Illini_Ref

Quote:

Originally posted by gordon30307
Fed Rules there are no accidental appeals. Play at first runner clearly beats throw and misses the base 1B has foot on the base.. Mechanic is FU calls safe. Play must be appealed to register an out. Applies to all bases.

I use the same mechanic, but under the "continuing aciton" section we may be wrong.

Apparently we are. Another "exception" that I will have to keep in mind. I expect that most Coache's by now know that there are no accidental appeals. If you called it as per case book (they never read the case book or the rule book) you will have a "discussion". If you treat it as "accidental" probably " no discussion". Let see how do I want to handle this...........LOL