Malicious Contact After Scoring (Fed Only)

Blue37 · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 27, 2005, 06:40pm

We had a great presentation on malicious contact today in our local meeting, but one issue went unresolved.

Bases loaded, less than two outs, infield playing in. Ground ball to the 2nd baseman who comes home, but the throw is off to the right of the plate. The runner from 3rd touches the plate then maliciously contacts the catcher. We understand the player is ejected for malicious contact, he is called out, and the run comes off the board. The unresolved issue was what happens to the batter-runner.

We were told the reason for calling the runner out and taking the run off the board was he violated the force play slide rule. If that is the reason for the out, should we call the batter-runner out also?

bob jenkins · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Feb 27, 2005, 07:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Blue37
We had a great presentation on malicious contact today in our local meeting, but one issue went unresolved.

Bases loaded, less than two outs, infield playing in. Ground ball to the 2nd baseman who comes home, but the throw is off to the right of the plate. The runner from 3rd touches the plate then maliciously contacts the catcher. We understand the player is ejected for malicious contact, he is called out, and the run comes off the board. The unresolved issue was what happens to the batter-runner.

We were told the reason for calling the runner out and taking the run off the board was he violated the force play slide rule. If that is the reason for the out, should we call the batter-runner out also?

Yes.

Note that had this not been a force play, the (former)runner would be ejected, but the run would count.

Gmoore · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 01:00pm

There is no force slid rule are you saying your going to call the batter/runner out because R3 did not slide? I understand calling the double play for interference on R3 but not because he didnÂ’t slide.

[Edited by Gmoore on Feb 28th, 2005 at 01:03 PM]

bob jenkins · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Gmoore
There is no force slid rule

In FED and NCAA, the rule regading the runner's obligations on a force play is commonly referred to as the "Force Play Slide Rule" or "FPSR."

mcrowder · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 02:45pm

Then obviously, GMoore, you've forgotten about the rule.

greymule · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 03:34pm

I didn't know the contact had to be malicious (ie, worthy of ejection). I thought that if the forced runner slid (or ran) past the base and made any significant contact, the FPSR went into effect.

Gmoore · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 03:46pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mcrowder
Then obviously, GMoore, you've forgotten about the rule.

Could you give me the rule number so I might study up on it?

Tim C · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 03:55pm

Start with Fed Rules Book (Page 54/55):

8.4.2b Starting at "does not slide legally . . ."

This will give the main reference for Federation Games.

While OBR does not reflect this safety issue most non-professional leagues playing under OBR or a OBR type book have a reference to this same issue.

NCAA also has FPSR.

Gmoore · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 04:52pm

but the bottom line is.... Runners are never required to slide,But if a runner elects to slide,the slide must be legal

I have just never heard of the "fpsr" nor remeber anything that say you have to slide.

I understand that illegaly sliding to break up a double play or "alters the actions of a fielder in the act of making a play".....

Tim C · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 06:38pm

I am still amazed when an umpire says, "I'v never heard of FPSR!" -- Of course that same question does not affect me if it is from a rat.

But you are correct . . . runners are never required to slide (the play is NOT called "The Forced Slide Play Rule") and when they slide it must be legal.

If we combine that with the opportunity to slide or avoid it is pretty easy to interpret the rule.

GarthB · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 06:51pm

I have just never heard of the "fpsr" nor remeber anything that say you have to slide.

Do you do High School baseball in a state that uses the National Federation of High Schools rules? If so, I'm sure you've heard about the Force Play Slide Rule at some time. It's not new.

And, there is nothing that says one has to slide. You still seem to be confusing Force Play with Forced Slide.

Gmoore · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 10:25pm

OK,
I am still amazed when an umpire says, "I'v never heard of FPSR!" -- Of course that same question does not affect me if it is from a rat.

Do you do High School baseball in a state that uses the National Federation of High Schools rules? If so, I'm sure you've heard about the Force Play Slide Rule at some time. It's not new.

guys I just ask a question that I never heard of it i have been calling for 5 years been to clinics and I have never heard the term "FPSR" that rule "fpsr" is not in the NFHs rule book in the Playing terms and Definitions nor can i find it in the case book.

DG · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 28, 2005, 11:46pm

See Case Book 2.32.2C for a FPSR violation beyond home plate. If a runner makes malicious contact beyond home plate he has not made a legal slide, or avoided the player making the play so he is guilty of FPSR violation. 2 outs, cancel the run.

Gmoore · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 01, 2005, 12:27am

DG- Thanks for the case book I guess I am getting caught up on the terminology, As I stated before I know there are illegal slides.. but you are never required to slide and on a force play he/she does not have to slide.. they can slide or run in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder.I think we would both make the same call you or some of the senior members may call it due to FPSR I may call because of a illegal slide.To me the Term "FORCE PLAY SLIDE RULE" means you are required to slide on a force play.And in the case book it is only because they made contact due to an illegal slide.

DG · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Mar 01, 2005, 01:10am

Quote:

Originally posted by Gmoore
DG- Thanks for the case book I guess I am getting caught up on the terminology, As I stated before I know there are illegal slides.. but you are never required to slide and on a force play he/she does not have to slide.. they can slide or run in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder.I think we would both make the same call you or some of the senior members may call it due to FPSR I may call because of a illegal slide.To me the Term "FORCE PLAY SLIDE RULE" means you are required to slide on a force play.And in the case book it is only because they made contact due to an illegal slide.

Think of FPSR as "slide legally" or "avoid" and everthing works out. Frankly, I would be hard pressed to make this call as per the case book play on a runner who slides past home and makes contact with a catcher on the other side of the plate. FED must think you can stop on a dime on a flat plate. At any other base, the height of the base will help stop the momentum of a sliding runner. But if the illegal contact was malicous I would have no such reluctance.