Mechanics from "A"

[dddunn3d]

Assuming 90' field: From the "A" position, BR hits to a gap, and may try for second. When I come into the working area should I try to quickly cross in front of the runner, or wait to go behind him?

[Tim C]

3d:

Since you are asking about coming in I will answer in that process:

So we assume that you are watching the ball head to the outfield. You have decided that it is NOT a trouble ball (more on this later).

You move into the infield before the BR gets to first so you are passing IN FRONT of him. You either make the pivot ("jump the creek") and glance at the runner touching first OR you do the "AAA Glance" to check the runner without the pivot.

You then get your eyes back onto the ball as you head for an area behind the mound. As the ball is fielded and a throw is made you let the ball take you to any play that may occur at any base.

Now IN MY GROUP the ball you described ("BR hits to a gap') is one of the times the BU "goes out" so there would be no reason for the base umpire to be inside the diamond.

[dddunn3d]

Just engaged in some preliminary study...I'm attending a state clinic & rules meeting 2/26.

I understand BU going out on trouble balls from A. It's the ball that appears to be headed to the gap that's cut-off by F8/F9 so that there will be a close play at 2B if BR attempts it. Should BU reverse direction back towards 2B, or does PU take the 2B call?

[Tim C]

3d:

Once the BU "goes out" he always stays out (i.e. he can return to make a call at the plate).

Pause, read and react. I know that all of us have seen a ball that we thought was going to the fence that is "cut off" by a real good outfielder.

My only answer is that I try to read and make sure the ball is betwix the fielders -- remember we,

Pause, read and react.

This is not a very good answer, is it?

[dddunn3d]

It's really the simplest(i.e, non-complex) answers that are the most useful. Thanks...

[GarthB]

Originally posted by dddunn3d
Just engaged in some preliminary study...I'm attending a state clinic & rules meeting 2/26.

I understand BU going out on trouble balls from A. It's the ball that appears to be headed to the gap that's cut-off by F8/F9 so that there will be a close play at 2B if BR attempts it. Should BU reverse direction back towards 2B, or does PU take the 2B call?

As Tee indicated, once out, stay out. (except to cover home).

As the ball leaves the infield towards RF, from "A", take a "read-step", make your decision, then act...go out or go in.

Don't worry about second base. Your experienced PU will see you go out and take the runner to first; and, if he tries for second, the PU will be comfortably in the working area behind the mound ready for the play will make the call.

[officialtony]

I'd like to field your original question.
I have asked several others this same question as I came through the system. There are different answers each time I pose the question. My response to you is this. Originally, I tried to cut across the runners path ( the basepath between 1st and 2nd ) to get inside before he rounded 1st base. What I found was that I couldn't get a clean view of his touch of 1st base. I also felt like I might interfere with him at some point by cutting across his foot path and sight path. Further, I found that I had trouble getting into a set position to make the call because I was watching the pitcher move in to back up the throw and a myriad of other problems. So I have opted for staying outside the base path and following the throw once the runner has rounded 1st. I let the ball lead me to the tag. This also allows me to make a call at 1st if the fielder gets to the ball quickly and tries to catch the runner headed back to 1st after making an attempt at 2nd. I don't know if this is text book, but it has worked well for me.

[GarthB]

If you decide to go in, go in. If you can't run 30 feet while the runner is running 90, you don't have the wheels to umpire. Pivot, either traditional or AAA, watch the touch at first. No need to be watching the pitcher. Look to the ball. For a play you need a runner and a ball. Let the ball direct you to the next play, if any, not the runner.

If there will be a play at second you have plenty of time to set up in the working area behind the mound, come set and make the call. From here you have the perfect view of runner, base, ball and tag, unlike the view you would get if you were playing catch up from working outside the base line. AND, you are in position to take the runner to third if he has the opportunity to go.

I know of no school or system of mechanics that recommend staying outside the baseline and playing catch-up, at least not on a 90' diamond.

[DG]

Originally posted by Tim C
3d:

Since you are asking about coming in I will answer in that process:

So we assume that you are watching the ball head to the outfield. You have decided that it is NOT a trouble ball (more on this later).

You move into the infield before the BR gets to first so you are passing IN FRONT of him. You either make the pivot ("jump the creek") and glance at the runner touching first OR you do the "AAA Glance" to check the runner without the pivot.

You then get your eyes back onto the ball as you head for an area behind the mound. As the ball is fielded and a throw is made you let the ball take you to any play that may occur at any base.

Now IN MY GROUP the ball you described ("BR hits to a gap') is one of the times the BU "goes out" so there would be no reason for the base umpire to be inside the diamond.

Assuming that BU has paused, read, and reacted, on a gapper why would your group send the BU out vs. making a pivot and being ready for a call at 2B or 3B on a "double" or a "triple"?

[Tim C]

I'll try to answer a couple of posts in one fell swoop:

DG:

"Assuming that BU has paused, read, and reacted, on a gapper why would your group send the BU out vs. making a pivot and being ready for a call at 2B or 3B on a "double" or a "triple"?"

Pause, read and react is the key to all umpiring. This does not mean you don't "go out" in lieu of this.

Unlike professional fields many non-professional umpires work at fields that have trouble areas. We send the message to our umpires "if you error in selecting when to go out make sure you go out too OFTEN rather than too little."

Pause, read and react is not a time consuming issue. When you read the ball being a gapper, trouble ball, a ball that is being caught below the waist or a ball where fielders are coming together that dictates your next action.

OfficialTony:

"I have asked several others this same question as I came through the system. There are different answers each time I pose the question. My response to you is this. Originally, I tried to cut across the runners path ( the basepath between 1st and 2nd ) to get inside before he rounded 1st base. What I found was that I couldn't get a clean view of his touch of 1st base. I also felt like I might interfere with him at some point by cutting across his foot path and sight path. Further, I found that I had trouble getting into a set position to make the call because I was watching the pitcher move in to back up the throw and a myriad of other problems. So I have opted for staying outside the base path and following the throw once the runner has rounded 1st. I let the ball lead me to the tag. This also allows me to make a call at 1st if the fielder gets to the ball quickly and tries to catch the runner headed back to 1st after making an attempt at 2nd. I don't know if this is text book, but it has worked well for me."

WOW! In "Big Boy Ball" there is no way an umpire can get inside and make a call at second base by being behind the runner. If the runner has passed you (made the turn) there is no way you can go behind him and get into position.

If you are so slow that you can't run 30' while the BR runs 90' there is no way you would get a varsity game in my area.

People, there is NOT ONE CLINIC OR SCHOOL that allows this mechanic.

PLEASE IGNORE OfficalTony's advice and hustle enough to beat the runner.

Everything he says can be done correctly.

He says he couldn't get a clear view of the BR's touch of first. If you do either the pivot (jump the creek) or a AAA Glance you just time that with the runner making the turn. Basic fundementals.

He says this allows him to get back to first if they throw behind: By hustling I am inside and can easily return to the cut out area if the throw goes behind the BR after rounding.

He says he worries about getting in the runners way or even the runners sight line. My gads, you are running 30' freakin' feet while the batter runner is running 90' -- I am the DEFINITION of "fat and old" and I make this move waaay before the BR is even getting to first base.

Tony, you must have went to Lance's school of umpiring.

Again, please ignore the advice given by OfficialTony

[officialtony]

Well
I am two for two.
I'm glad somebody reponded to my post or I would have had to come back with a legitimate answer. All I had to do was answer the original questions with something goofy and we can finally get some definitive answers to the original questions. For the most part, everyones' responses to my posts were right on the money ( or so it would appear ). I just wish we could get those answers right away instead of all the garbage that goes on in between. Garth and Tee have finally given us good definitive answers and their advice sounds solid. Any chance we can get that advice from everyone without all the criticism in between? It makes for much more enjoyable reading.
( By the way . . . . please do not follow my advice in my post. That was my j o k i n g that others alluded to doing earlier. Any ridiculing or criticism you get will be well deserved! )


[Edited by officialtony on Feb 22nd, 2005 at 11:47 AM]

[officialtony]

Oh,
In the " for what it's worth department", I do move to the inside before the runner gets to 1st - usually well ahead of the runner - and get myself in position for the play at 2nd or 3rd if necessary. If I am working with a PU who I am not familiar with, I cover this before the game, so that if I do go out on the trouble ball, I yell to him and he knows to come out to make the call. We cover this among other scenarios before the game.

Thanks

[David B]

Originally posted by officialtony
Oh,
In the " for what it's worth department", I do move to the inside before the runner gets to 1st - usually well ahead of the runner - and get myself in position for the play at 2nd or 3rd if necessary. If I am working with a PU who I am not familiar with, I cover this before the game, so that if I do go out on the trouble ball, I yell to him and he knows to come out to make the call. We cover this among other scenarios before the game.

Thanks

That sounds good except why should you have to yell. PU has a perfect view of what you are doing. Once he sees you going out he then knows he has everything.

If PU can't see you moving out, then he's probably going to miss a lot of other things also before the days over.

If not, he's going to look funny standing behind the plate with a play made at second and you're standing out in RF.

Thanks
David

[officialtony]

David,
I probably don't have to yell, particularly since we have discussed this prior to the game. If PU sees my back, hopefully he will respond and adjust his position immediately. I guess the yell is my way of being sure we are on the same page.

Redundant?

Probably.

But I'd rather be sure than sorry.

Thanks

[dddunn3d]

Just received Manual for the Two-Umpire System, Jaska/Roder, and PBUC Umpire Manual from Gerry Davis.
Looking forward to making a quantum leap forward.