2005 MLB UMPIRES and CREWS

[UMP25]

Originally posted by Tim C

I don't think you should try to lump any of us on this page with "someone who doesn't understand" -- we understand and we get it.

Point well taken.

[GarthB]

"I'm not trying to make a federal case out of this. I'm just relaying some thoughts shared by some MLB Umps who aren't exactly happy about this."

If a majority of MLB umpires felt the loss of this benefit outweighed the gains of the new contract, I'm sure they would not have ratified the agreement.

I am not in any way supporting Sandy Alderson or his henchmen. I understand he has little respect for umpires. He has demonstrated that many times. He screwed a friend of mine who was an MLB umpire. And smiled while doing it.

Nonetheless, MLB umpires, as do we all, make choices. Once made, they should live with them.

[UMP25]

Originally posted by GarthB

Nonetheless, MLB umpires, as do we all, make choices. Once made, they should live with them.

No one is a bigger believer in having someone live with their decisions, which is why I had no sympathy for those who resigned in 1999 per Richie Phillip's recommendation, only to have their bluff called by MLB then whining about being out of a job (hello, Eric Gregg). Just my $.02

[GarthB]

Originally posted by UMP25

No one is a bigger believer in having someone live with their decisions, which is why I had no sympathy for those who resigned in 1999 per Richie Phillip's recommendation, only to have their bluff called by MLB then whining about being out of a job (hello, Eric Gregg). Just my $.02

Surprisingly perhaps we differ here. The vote to resign was done in a meeting of all the umpires and a pldege was made to stick together. Then, outside of the presence of other umpires, without discussion, some decided to individually rescind their resignations while others stuck to the agreement they had made with their fellow umpires.

Nobody came out looking good, but the ones who honored their word and committment to their fellow umpires came out the worst. There are some MLB umpires who have yet to speak to one another after this.

I am not suggesting that Philllips advice was good. I am not suggesting that resigning was not a mistake. I am suggesting that some very good and principled people got screwed by their fellow umpires.

[UMP25]

Those who rescinded their resignations did so because they were suggested to do so by those who never resigned in the first place. For the most part, there were three "groups" of umpires, for lack of better terminology. One group consisted of the ardent Phillips supporters, one group the opposite, while a small group of guys were kind of in the middle, wondering what they should do. Some of the old guard tried to convince them to stay united, while others tried to convince them not to go down that road. Understandably, several of these guys were young or new umps. Do they align with the longtime veterans, or do they align with those who felt some longtime veterans were a bit too arrogant and out of touch? I'm sure it wasn't easy.

The group of guys opposed to Richie's actions simply believed that the constant anti-management attitude wasn't helping their cause. They felt that trying to work with their superiors to improve umpiring altogether was a laudable path on which to embark. Those who were adamant Richie supporters felt otherwise. I'm not saying one group or another was correct--I'll leave that to history's judgment, or someone else's judgment.

My lack of sympathy is for those guys who, after resigning and refusing to see what was going on, years later complained about being out of a job. I suppose it was a big gamble either way, but in that case, the dice came up with numbers that didn't go their way.

For the record, I personally do not take a side as to whether the old guard or new guard was/is correct. I have friends involved on both sides, and this is one subject I generally don't bring up with them.

Having said all this, I still say Alderson's an idiot.

[GarthB]

My lack of respect is for those who agreed to stick to together in an open meeting and then did not inform their fellow umpires they were rescinding their resignations.

And I say this while being opposed to the resignation strategy.

And I agree, Alderson is an idiot.

[UMP25]

Except that they didn't resign in the first place, so there were no recissions in those cases. There were many umpires who did not resign at all. They opposed the strategy from the beginning.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by UMP25
Except that they didn't resign in the first place, so there were no recissions in those cases. There were many umpires who did not resign at all. They opposed the strategy from the beginning.

I'm not talking about the ones who did not resign. I am talking about the ones who rescinded their resignations, and yes there were some.

We can take this off the board if you wish to pursue it further. Feel free to email me.

[UMP25]

No need to take it off the board. I'm not trying to pick a fight.

[GarthB]

I know that. I just thought we might be boring the rest of the board. It wasn't an invite to "step outside". I'm a lover, not a fighter. I discovered that when I was on the force.

[Tim C]

Now the "rest of the story" with the tickets is out.

ALL Major League Players, umpires and team staff now must pay for the tickets.

EVERYONE must pay.

WHY, the IRS has informed MLB that the "free" tickets are to called INCOME and taxes must be paid.

So yet again, we are hit with, at least, incomplete information written in a way that it makes "the employer" look like the bad guy.

It is NOT just the umpires -- it is everyone.

Oh yes, Sandy is a jerk . . . always has been.

[Edited by Tim C on Mar 29th, 2005 at 09:54 AM]

[mattmets]

I don't understand how they are "income". Maybe it's just my being naive, but haven't free tickets long been considered a perk of the job? If the players or umpires were selling the tickets I could understand, but if they are FREE there is no cash being exchanged, right? Leave it up to MLB and the IRS to strip the players and umpires of this as well.

And I agree with everyone else- Sandy Alderson is, was, and always will be, an idiot.

[Tim C]

The tickets are income because they have value.

Let's say that a Red Sox ticket sells for $60.

Let's say that umpire Mr. Friendly gets four tickets . . .

The IRS values those tickets at face value. Someone would pay $60 for the individual tickets so they are "of value" . . .

So let's assume that an MLB umpire works 125 games a year with time off for vacation. That means that the same four tickets (I know at some places it could be hard to give away tickets) could equal $30,000 in "services rendered" to Mr. Friendly.

Taking a longer look:

If an umpire can give away tickets to a game where there is a charge to attend it is almost the same as being given the money.

Also remember the issues faced by several NBA Officials (some even went to jail) and Al Clark.

Blame MLB if you want . . . this is driven by the IRS.

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Tim C
The tickets are income because they have value.

Let's say that a Red Sox ticket sells for $60.

Let's say that umpire Mr. Friendly gets four tickets . . .

The IRS values those tickets at face value. Someone would pay $60 for the individual tickets so they are "of value" . . .

So let's assume that an MLB umpire works 125 games a year with time off for vacation. That means that the same four tickets (I know at some places it could be hard to give away tickets) could equal $30,000 in "services rendered" to Mr. Friendly.

Taking a longer look:

If an umpire can give away tickets to a game where there is a charge to attend it is almost the same as being given the money.

Also remember the issues faced by several NBA Officials (some even went to jail) and Al Clark.

Blame MLB if you want . . . this is driven by the IRS.

What's more, many umpires and players used the tickets in lieu of cash. Some used the tickets to "pay" for meals. Some used the tickets to "pay" for cab rides. One player used tickets to pay his gardner.

Many benefits provided by employers are taxable. I had to pay tax on the personal use of a corporate vacation lake condo.

This isn't a new decision by IRS, they're just late in getting to baseball.

[UMP25]

Originally posted by Tim C
Now the "rest of the story" with the tickets is out.

ALL Major League Players, umpires and team staff now must pay for the tickets.

EVERYONE must pay.

WHY, the IRS has informed MLB that the "free" tickets are to called INCOME and taxes must be paid.

So yet again, we are hit with, at least, incomplete information written in a way that it makes "the employer" look like the bad guy.

I knew it was the IRS mandating it. I was told this on the phone yesterday. I just didn't want to start a political thread here bashing the IRS. It's just too easy to do. MLB management still sucks.

What I DO want to know is: doesn't the IRS have bigger and better things to do than go after the little people who are getting these comped tickets (yes, it's the recipient who also must pay)? Ridiculous.