Advantageous 4th Out

[mbyron]

Originally posted by cbfoulds
Neither have I seen any case play or ruling that would prohibit a runner [who is not otherwise out] from erasing a baserunning error/ 4th out situation, nor have you supplied one [I've asked twice - I think we may take it as given that there are none].

Well. I'd say that we're getting into "burden tennis" here, knocking the burden of coming up with a rule/ruling/citation back and forth. As I recall, the conversation started with a partial ruling that allowed the defense to play on BR for a 4th out if BR had not reached 1B. From that, Roger seemed to infer that BR could keep running after 3 were out, which didn't follow from the ruling we were given. Then Roger told us of a further ruling (or maybe it was part of the first one) that DOES allow BR to continue running after 3 are out. Fine, I've got no problem, but that was a substantive, not merely logical, addition.

THEN, everyone seems to want to infer from this much that ANYONE on offense can keep running after 3 are out, at least if the runner himself is not yet out. But that doesn't follow from the ruling about BR being allowed to run. It might be TRUE, and it might be the official ruling for various leagues, but it doesn't follow by mere logic.

NOW, my day job is logic, folks, so don't get me started (uh, damn, I'm already started...). But logic isn't really the issue here anyway (grossly abused though it be by mcrowder). The issue is: what's the whole ruling about playing baseball after 3 are out? Some folks want to assume that play just continues, and anyone can do anything as long as they aren't out, because the rules don't say they can't. But come on: usually when 3 are out, that's it, the team that was at bat takes the field and vice versa. So the rules must say that you usually stop running after 3 are out. The 4th out situation is exceptional, and exceptions need special rules/rulings/interpretations.

We have not heard the full ruling here, but just keep getting pieces:
1. the defense can play for an advantageous 4th out.
2. BR can continue to run to 1B to prevent a 4th out there.

Are there more pieces to this ruling? What about a runner who has committed a baserunning infraction? Can he return to correct the error after 3 are out in order to prevent the defense from recording a 4th out? Please don't tell me that "logic" requires allowing this, or that anything here is "absurd." We need a complete and authoritative ruling for an exceptional case that goes beyond the rules for normal play.

Or maybe it's just another damn TWP?