OBR 7.07 vs NFHS 8-3-1c

[Peruvian]

Situation: Runners on 2nd and 3rd. The runner from 3rd attempts to steal home, and the catcher either obstructs the batter or steps in front of the plate without the ball, in an attempt to put out the advancing runner. The runner at 2nd stays there.

In the NFHS case book, case 8.3.1, Situation B, it is very clear in stating that a runner is not eligible to advance on the infraction unless he was trying to steal. Also in rule 8-3-1c, "Each runner...is awarded one base when...he is attempting to steal or he is forced..." So the ruling in NFHS is the batter gets first and the stealing runner gets home. The runner at second is not eligible to advance because he was not stealing, nor was he forced.

Now, in 7.07 (OBR), my question is not whether the batter and the stealing runner from third advance a base, but what about the runner at second? Since in OBR, it is technically a balk, does he also advance a base? 7.07 is not clear in this, however I would assume the runner at 2nd also gets a base because of the balk.

[nine01c]

OBR It is not considered a balk in the usual way. It is Catcher's Interference. First, you let all continuous action take place (if there is any). If batter and every runner advances one base, you ignore the interference. Since this is not the case in your play, you will thus inforce the penalty. Batter gets 1B, R3 scores (because he was stealing on the pitch) and R2 returns (stays) at 2B. Runners not stealing must return to their TOP base unless they are forced. Rule 6.08 c
Looks like NFHS did not make their own version of this rule.

[Rich Ives]

[emphasis added]

7.07 If, with a runner on third base and trying to score by means of a squeeze play or a steal, the catcher or any other fielder steps on, or in front of home base without possession of the ball, or touches the batter or his bat, the pitcher shall be charged with a balk, the batter shall be awarded first base on the interference and the ball is dead.

This isn't hard.

The ball is dead because of the interference. There is no continuous action by definition. If it happens, do the penalty.

A balk is a balk - all runners get a base.

The batter gets first.

[Edited by Rich Ives on Jan 3rd, 2005 at 12:19 PM]

[nine01c]

The reference I was using (J/R) stated 6.08c, 7.04d, and 7.07 to rule on this play. It clearly stated that the runner not stealing on the pitch must return to his TOP base. They were all considered defensive (catcher's) interference, so I'm not sure why there might be different penalties invoked.

Also, you DO have to consider continuous action (if there is any) because it is a delayed dead ball until all action stops.

The back of the book has a list of what they call "inaccurate" rules and 7.07 is included, if that means anything.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by nine01c
The reference I was using (J/R) stated 6.08c, 7.04d, and 7.07 to rule on this play. It clearly stated that the runner not stealing on the pitch must return to his TOP base. They were all considered defensive (catcher's) interference, so I'm not sure why there might be different penalties invoked.

Also, you DO have to consider continuous action (if there is any) because it is a delayed dead ball until all action stops.

The back of the book has a list of what they call "inaccurate" rules and 7.07 is included, if that means anything.

There has been much discussion on the 7.07 issue over the years -- some "authorities" say it's a mistake and to ignore it (R2 remains at second); others say it's the rule and to enforce it (R2 advances to third).

MLBUM includes this: "If a runner is attempting to steal a base when the catcher interferes with the batter, the runner is
awarded the base on the interference. Runners not attempting to steal or not forced to advance
remain on the base they occupied at the time of the interference unless Official Baseball Rule
7.07 applies. Under Official Baseball Rule 7.07, if a runner is stealing home when the catcher
interferes with the batter, the additional penalty of a balk is invoked, which enables all runners
on base to advance (whether or not they were stealing)."

[DG]

This play is covered in the Conflicting Rules Chapter of "More than 100 Problems With the Official Baseball Rules". It is also covered by J/R in Chapter 14. The difference between OBR and FED is covered in 2004 BRD under item 285.

In summary, where there is catcher interference during a steal or squeeze of home:

OBR - all runners advance one base, batter goes to 1B.
FED - only runners advancing advance, batter goes to 1B.
NCAA - same as OBR

[cbfoulds]

Originally posted by nine01c
The reference I was using (J/R) stated 6.08c, 7.04d, and 7.07 to rule on this play. It clearly stated that the runner not stealing on the pitch must return to his TOP base.

Which J/R edition are you using? My 9th Ed. [2004] clearly states that if R3 was stealing, all runners are awarded their advance base. [pg. 117]

[nine01c]

Embarassed to say, I have the Sixth Edition (loose leaf).
Well, it is signed by Rick Roder. Glad they have clarified this situation. Guess I'll spring for the newest edition. Thanks for the info.

[DG]

Originally posted by nine01c
Embarassed to say, I have the Sixth Edition (loose leaf).
Well, it is signed by Rick Roder. Glad they have clarified this situation. Guess I'll spring for the newest edition. Thanks for the info.

The 9th edition has an Exception, "If a R3 was stealing, all runners are awarded their advance base [7.07]." This does not change the fact that FED is different, and the original post was about the difference in FED and OBR.

[nine01c]

Point well taken. Guess NFHS DID make their own version of this rule after all.