Marsh Interview

[WindyCityBlue]

Our moderators are getting thin skinned. They deleted my reply again.

Baseball is leading the way here. I have yet to see another major sport revamp their officiating like baseball did this past two years.

I don't work the sport, but noticed that the NFL replay system doesn't function as well. They don't use the overturn conference like baseball either. Coaches and players can't appeal calls that lead to this dialogue.

I don't work cage ball either. I haven't seen basketball referees at any level talk in the same manner and change calls.

I'm proud of the fact that while we can still be proud of our skills, we are made more human by our ability to correct many bad calls. Maybe the other sports will follow the lead.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue


1) I don't work the sport, but noticed that the NFL replay system doesn't function as well. They don't use the overturn conference like baseball either.

2) I don't work cage ball either. I haven't seen basketball referees at any level talk in the same manner and change calls.

1) Yes, NFL officials do conference on some calls, and will try and get the call right. Football officials at the high school and college levels do so too.

2) Basketball officials at all levels conference on some calls also, and the calling official will change his call if he feels that it needs to be changed.

You don't have a clue what the officials do in other sports, Windy. Stick to baseball and quit trying to make your point by using something that you know nothing about- the mechanics in use in football and basketball.

[WindyCityBlue]

That is a perfect example of the integity you speak of, but don't exhibit. I prostrated myself with the disclaimers and you still couldn't help yourself. I never mentioned you, Rut or any other official. In fact, I made a concerted effort to speak of the professional ranks. I don't recall seeing your name attached to those either.

The membership is becoming wise to your hypocrisy.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
That is a perfect example of the integity you speak of, but don't exhibit. I prostrated myself with the disclaimers and you still couldn't help yourself. I never mentioned you, Rut or any other official. In fact, I made a concerted effort to speak of the professional ranks. I don't recall seeing your name attached to those either.

The membership is becoming wise to your hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy? Hey, I just told you what the other sports actually do. Would you care to tell us what the prescribed mechanics really are at all levels in both sports, Windy? Under what circumstances are we allowed to use the replay procedure in NCAA basketball games? Are you now saying that they really don't ever huddle and correct? Gee, as it seemed that you didn't really have a clue, I thought that you might have been grateful to learn something. Lah me. That's what I get for trying to be a nice guy.

Btw, Papa C and HHH seem to think that you might just lack a little knowledge about baseball also, not just in all the other sports.

[WindyCityBlue]

You should really read my exchanges between Papa C and Triple H lately. It seems that for every question they pose, I have answered them. The dialogues we share usually center on personality differences and how we handle situations. There is almost always a resolution. I have agreed and complimented them and have seen Triple H do the same. Papa C. may never acknowledge publicly that I have added to the officiating dialogue, but I take solace that he has begun conversing with me again. At least we can differ in opinion and make others think. That serves the greater good and is the heart of this forum.

You've chosen to waste minutes of my life with poorly constructed drivel that offers no insight into game management or rules interpretation.

At night, when it is really dark and the world has grown unbearably quiet, can you hear me laughing? The rest of the mebership can.

[NC*BLUE]

Whats the chances we get some new ppl in here that can actually offer some useful advice and help to those that seek it. So we dont always have the same 3 or 4 trying to take the other down.. gets old!

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I don't work the sport, but noticed that the NFL replay system doesn't function as well. They don't use the overturn conference like baseball either. Coaches and players can't appeal calls that lead to this dialogue.

It is called "Instant Replay." My God, the games take long enough as it is. You really think it is a good idea to have every situation where a coach complains to go into a conference? Especially when the things they complain about are not with a good understanding of the rules or judgment?

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I don't work cage ball either. I haven't seen basketball referees at any level talk in the same manner and change calls.

I can tell you do not. Because using your warped logic, every foul would have a conference and every violation or violation that is not called would have a conference.

I can tell you only work baseball, because your knowledge of other sports is so way off base you could only be a one hit wonder.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I'm proud of the fact that while we can still be proud of our skills, we are made more human by our ability to correct many bad calls. Maybe the other sports will follow the lead.

Just sad!

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

The last two words of your post epitomize our feelings about you, as well.

When you grow up, maybe you'll see that those of us who have been at this a while, understand what is happening. At the professional level, owners expect more for the salaries they are paying. They demand perfection from their players and officials. The ownership drives the league.

Now, focus here...they don't care about the feelings and pride of the officials that are employed by the league. They simply want the proper call made, according to the rules. They don't really care about how long the game goes on either. They make even more money keeping the fans in the stadium. Think about it, the extra innings of the ALCS was a boom to the concessions and souvenier sellers in the stadiums. Fox made more money on the additional commercials. Now imagine what is coming..."G.E. bring this Instant Replay to life!" Don't believe me? Notice the big Motorola logos on the headsets or the athletic logos on every piece of apparel INCLUDING THE UMPIRES??? If they can make money on an aspect of the game, they will.

You are still hung up on whether a coach or player can ask us to check with our partners on a call. I can only say this. You didn't believe me when I said that the method of officiating and making umpires more accountable was changing. Well, its here. Soon, you'll see why 99% of us are telling you why they don't object to conferencing. Our job is to get the call right. You still don't get that.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue


I don't work the sport, but noticed that the NFL replay system doesn't function as well. They don't use the overturn conference like baseball either. Coaches and players can't appeal calls that lead to this dialogue.

I don't work cage ball either. I haven't seen basketball referees at any level talk in the same manner and change calls.

Well, you used your usual tactic above to ignore my questions completely concerning what the other sports really use, so let's try again:
1) Are you saying that NFL officials NEVER get together to conference and try and get a call correct? Never? Can you please cite the appropriate NFL mechanic in use that states that there is no conferencing allowed? Do you know what the actual recommended mechanic actually is in the NFL? And you say that coaches or players can't appeal calls that lead to this dialogue? Can they then appeal calls that lead to a TV replay instead? Do you know if the NCAA and FED also have mechanics in use in football that will allow officials to conference over certain calls, and change those calls if they think that they should be changed? And what type of calls they are? Please answer and please be specific- citing the rule, case play, mechanic issued, etc. to back up your assertation that there are NO conferences used in football.

2) You say that basketball officials won't talk and change calls either? Didn't you spend the whole summer stating that not only do basketball officials talk and change calls, they actually can overrule another official's call? True or false, indy? Do you remember the NCAA playoff game that you cited? Or do you want me to dig it out for you? Do you know how the NCAA replay system really works in basketball- when you can use it, when you can't, what type of calls it can be used for only,etc.? Do you know what is in the NCAA and FED mechanics book when it comes to conferencing to change a call, and whether, or if, there is a recommended procedure?

You know everything about officiating at every level in these other sports, Windy. Give us some answers.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
The last two words of your post epitomize our feelings about you, as well.

I was brought up by my family to consider the source when something has been said. Ever since you started running your mouth about me on this board, I have been elected to two board positions, received a playoff, asked to join a IHSA committee and have a few people trying to get me to become an IHSA Clinician. I guess what you think does not care much weight around here.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
When you grow up, maybe you'll see that those of us who have been at this a while, understand what is happening. At the professional level, owners expect more for the salaries they are paying. They demand perfection from their players and officials. The ownership drives the league.

Who cares about the professional level? The pros are not the end all be all of umpiring or officiating in this country.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Now, focus here...they don't care about the feelings and pride of the officials that are employed by the league. They simply want the proper call made, according to the rules.

They don't really care about how long the game goes on either.

Did you just say that? Since you are talking about the pros, you have to be talking about TV revenue and ratings. Yes, they do care how long the games take because that means people will turn off the games or not watch at all. Actually the NFL took many considerations to shorten games. As a matter of fact their timing rules are totally different than any other level to help keep game moving. That is apart of the situation.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
They make even more money keeping the fans in the stadium. Think about it, the extra innings of the ALCS was a boom to the concessions and souvenier sellers in the stadiums. Fox made more money on the additional commercials. Now imagine what is coming..."G.E. bring this Instant Replay to life!" Don't believe me? Notice the big Motorola logos on the headsets or the athletic logos on every piece of apparel INCLUDING THE UMPIRES??? If they can make money on an aspect of the game, they will.

I guess you need to read Forbes Magazine and watch the TV ratings of regular season games in the NFL as compared to the MLB or even the NBA. The most valuable franchises are not MLB teams. Commercials during the playoffs with some major markets involved is great, but what about the rest of the season? If New York, Boston and St. Louis were not in the playoffs, the ratings would be dreadful. But because you have some really traditional powers or successful teams, it helps the ratings. No one paid attention last year in the World Series after the Cubs and Red Sox were eliminated in the playoffs. The ratings were decent, but they were not record setters.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
You are still hung up on whether a coach or player can ask us to check with our partners on a call.

My statements are about when that is appropriate, not the fact that they question you or have a disagreement with your call. There is a protocol still and there is a procedure to handle that request. Not all calls are up for debate nor should they be.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
I can only say this. You didn't believe me when I said that the method of officiating and making umpires more accountable was changing. Well, its here. Soon, you'll see why 99% of us are telling you why they don't object to conferencing. Our job is to get the call right. You still don't get that.

I can tell you need a new PDA with bigger fonts and a clearer screen. There is never anything wrong with conferencing about a call. You just do not do it every single call that is in dispute. Tony LaRussa came out a couple of times last night about a call and there was no conference. As a matter of fact I did not see one conference when I was watching the NLCS. Not one. If there was a conference, it sure was not while I was watching. I had meetings most of this week and missed most of the first half of games, but the umpires were not talking to each other after they made some tough decisions. Even in the ALCS there is one game where there was a major conference. So out of 14 games, there was only one game that had some conferencing on some tough calls. All the other games I watched this year on disputed calls, coaches were ejected and no conference was taken by the umpires to so-called "get it right" as you suggest. You cannot pick and choose the situations to fit your philosophy.

I have yet to hear anyone close say that you have to conference on plays because the coach wants one. As a matter of fact it is very much discouraged. Not to say you are never allowed to conference, but not just because the coach wants one or because you have a disputed call. I guess we need to conference on a pitch we see as a strike and the coach feels differently? Yeah, that is great umpiring.

Peace

[WindyCityBlue]

What part of I don't work those sports is too hard of a concept for you to grasp. As a fan, I recognizze the inconsistencies between the way baseball handles things versus other professional major sports. I have never claimed to be an expert on football or basketball. But again, you fail to grasp the concept of a discussion forum.

Don't hurt yourself trying to type a cute rebuttal. I will not waste bandwidth discussing either of those sports on a baseball board. You keep asking for answers, maybe you should drag your tail back to one of the other boards that laugh at you. They refuse to talk baseball there, why should we be different here.

[WindyCityBlue]

Jeff, stop lying about becoming a clinician. You cannot become an IHSA Clinician until you've become Certified in that sport. Unless you are playing games again and talking about a sport other than baseball (this is a baseball board, remember) you will not be considered for some time. You have never been assigned a Sectional or above in Baseball. I am very familiar with the procedures and am friends with many. JJ can probably attest that there are only a few IHSA Baseball Certified Clinicians that have never worked a State Championship or SuperSectional. You are years from those.

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Jeff, stop lying about becoming a clinician. You cannot become an IHSA Clinician until you've become Certified in that sport. Unless you are playing games again and talking about a sport other than baseball (this is a baseball board, remember) you will not be considered for some time. You have never been assigned a Sectional or above in Baseball. I am very familiar with the procedures and am friends with many. JJ can probably attest that there are only a few IHSA Baseball Certified Clinicians that have never worked a State Championship or SuperSectional. You are years from those.

Just curious did you work the Illinois State Tournament last season? If so where? Who were your partners. Have you ever made it to Supers or State? If so who did you work with? What conferences do you work in during the Spring? If not last season how about in the past?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Jeff, stop lying about becoming a clinician. You cannot become an IHSA Clinician until you've become Certified in that sport.

I am Certified in a sport.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
Unless you are playing games again and talking about a sport other than baseball (this is a baseball board, remember) you will not be considered for some time.

You talked about credibility. If I lacked credibility then I would not be considered in any sport. I never said what sport or how that might happen. I just stated that I am on "hold" to become an IHSA Clinician in a particular sport. I have only applied for that one sport. You cannot be a clinician in one sport and apply it to another sport unless you apply. There are a few dual sport clinicians, but they had to apply in each separately. I only said that because I had a Rule Interpreter last night and a President of an Association requests that I become a clinician for their group. I guess I really lack the respect of my peers as you suggest.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
You have never been assigned a Sectional or above in Baseball. I am very familiar with the procedures and am friends with many.

And I might never be. Not sure I will ever make myself available to do so. I almost had to not make myself available for the Regional I worked because of some other commitments. Like I have told you in the past, working far in the State Playoffs in Baseball is not really a major goal. Maybe one day, but at this time it is not the focus of my officiating career. I was too happy for my season to end to be overly excited to continue that much further.

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
JJ can probably attest that there are only a few IHSA Baseball Certified Clinicians that have never worked a State Championship or SuperSectional. You are years from those.

Windy, I would hope that I would work much further in the playoffs in my other sports than baseball. If I ever get that far in baseball it would be icing on the cake. But it sure would not be the main ingredient to what I feel is success. Not everyone looks at the Majors and a goal. Maybe it is your goal, but I have never had that as a possibility or something I would want to pursue.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
What part of I don't work those sports is too hard of a concept for you to grasp. As a fan, I recognizze the inconsistencies between the way baseball handles things versus other professional major sports. I have never claimed to be an expert on football or basketball. But again, you fail to grasp the concept of a discussion forum.

Don't hurt yourself trying to type a cute rebuttal. I will not waste bandwidth discussing either of those sports on a baseball board. You keep asking for answers, maybe you should drag your tail back to one of the other boards that laugh at you. They refuse to talk baseball there, why should we be different here.

Hmmmm, why aren't I surprised?

Windy, I don't, and also have never, pretended that I know very much about baseball umpiring. However, when YOU start making statements about officiating in other sports without the knowledge to prove that these statements are really true, well- you're putting yourself into a position where somebody just might point out to you how little that you really do know about the officiating mechanics and procedures in those other sports. Stick to baseball, and quit trying to use some made-up conjectures from other sports to try and prove a point.