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-   -   Step off back or forward (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/15220-step-off-back-forward.html)

orioles35 Thu Sep 02, 2004 03:16pm

Is it legal under any set of rules, when in the stretch to step off the rubber in front (towards the batter) with the pivot foot and throw to any base? Or does it have to be behind the rubber?

Gee Thu Sep 02, 2004 03:18pm

NO.

cbfoulds Thu Sep 02, 2004 03:27pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Gee
NO.
To the 1st question. YES to the 2nd.

orioles35 Thu Sep 02, 2004 03:31pm

Is there a rule somewhere I can quote and sound like I know what I'm talking about?

DownTownTonyBrown Thu Sep 02, 2004 03:34pm

OBR - Rule 8
NFHS - Rule 6

bob jenkins Thu Sep 02, 2004 04:22pm

Quote:

Originally posted by orioles35
Is it legal under any set of rules, when in the stretch to step off the rubber in front (towards the batter) with the pivot foot and throw to any base? Or does it have to be behind the rubber?
Although the answers given are correct, be sure you aren't asking about a jab-step or a jump-turn. These moves are legal and are sometimes described as above.


orioles35 Thu Sep 02, 2004 04:24pm

Jump turn I understand is legal. Is a "jab step" where the pivot foot is disengaged and planted towards third?

LDUB Thu Sep 02, 2004 04:55pm

Yes, for a right handed pitcher.

Joe38 Fri Sep 03, 2004 09:45am

Orioles35,
When the move to first let's say(RHP) is a jump or jab type, and continuous, it is possible to have the pivot foot come off the rubber and quickly plant forward of the rubber. This is considered legal if that is what your reference is relating to.

Joe

Prince Fri Sep 03, 2004 12:37pm

Refer to the PBUC Umpire Manual, 6.4 Special Balk Regulations, paragraph(i): "It is legal for a right-handed pitcher to begin a pick-off move to first base by first moving his pivot foot in the dirction of third base provided that he makes a legal step toward first base with his non-pivot foot before throwing there and provided that the move is continuous and without interruption. A pitcher who makes such a pick-off move is considered to be in contact with the rubber when he makes his throw to first base."

David Emerling Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:36am

Quote:

Originally posted by orioles35
Is it legal under any set of rules, when in the stretch to step off the rubber in front (towards the batter) with the pivot foot and throw to any base? Or does it have to be behind the rubber?
While in contact with the rubber, all that is needed for a pickoff attempt to be legal is the following:

1. The base to which the ball is thrown <b>must be occupied by a runner</b> -or- it is a base to which a runner is clearly advancing.

2. The <b>free foot must gain distance and direction</b> towards the base. The accepted interpretation of "direction" is a 90-degree cone, oriented toward that base, defined by two 45-degree lines.

3. The <b>move must be continuous</b>, without hesitation or alteration of direction.

If there is complete compliance with the above 3 items, it really doesn't matter where the pivot foot ends up.

The pitcher can not step off <i>forward</i> of the rubber <i>then</i> execute the pickoff maneuver. That would violate point #3 above - it would not be continuous since stepping off forward of the rubber is not considered a legal disengagement.

Once a pitcher has stepped off <i>backwards</i> (a legal disengagement), the pitcher no longer has to comply with any of the above points.

A RHP's move toward 1st base almost <i>always</i> involves his pivot foot landing somewhere in front of the rubber. That is perfectly legal as long as it goes in front of the rubber as part of a continuous motion ... and there is compliance with the other two points above.

There are jump/spin moves toward 2nd that frequently involve the pivot foot landing in <i>front</i> of the rubber. Perfectly legal.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

orioles35 Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:47am

Had a fun one Sunday afternoon. Two teams who went through a balk-fest in a prior game, one of which who had a pitcher who stepped off the rubber TOWARDS home plate, exactly what this thread was about.

We were warned before-hand about the prior game, the coaches. During pregame, everything was made clear between PU and myself. We agreed we would 'balk early and often', to take control of the game right at the start. We called one "no stop" balk on each team (these are 11 year olds) and didn't hear a peep about anything for the rest of the game. In fact, the game went very quickly because it seemed both teams were afraid to throw over to first for fear of balking again!

David Emerling Wed Sep 08, 2004 03:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by orioles35
Had a fun one Sunday afternoon. Two teams who went through a balk-fest in a prior game, one of which who had a pitcher who stepped off the rubber TOWARDS home plate, exactly what this thread was about.

We were warned before-hand about the prior game, the coaches. During pregame, everything was made clear between PU and myself. We agreed we would 'balk early and often', to take control of the game right at the start. We called one "no stop" balk on each team (these are 11 year olds) and didn't hear a peep about anything for the rest of the game. In fact, the game went very quickly because it seemed both teams were afraid to throw over to first for fear of balking again!

Again, the pitcher's pivot foot can <i>end up</i> in <i>front</i> of the rubber as long as he made a continuous move and complied with all three points that I made in a previous post. That is not a balk.

What he <i>can't</i> do is ... step off in <i>front</i> of the rubber ... and <i>then</i> execute a pickoff maneuver.

If that's what the pitchers in your game were doing, that would be a balk.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN



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