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Watched this game...and noted that the PU (Charlie Relaford, IIRC) bellowed the location of balls every time ("ball, outside!!" "ball, inside!" etc)...this is the first time I've heard a MLB ump do this. Is it rare?
I thought the consensus was NOT to announce location. Thoughts? |
I have heard of couple of guys doing that over the years, you really seem to hear it a lot on Sunday Night Baseball for some reason.
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When you make it to the show, however, you can pretty much do whatever the hell you want to do. |
When you make it to the show, however, you can pretty much do whatever the hell you want to do.
Which is what Charlie Reiliford, Joe "Illegal Pitch" West, Bill "Its my opinion that he should have to stop, just like he has to with runners on base" Miller and others are doing. This is what led to the last blow-up between MLB and the umps, and it will come again. And this time, the umps won't have Rich Garcia to "protect" them. |
Atl Blue,
As someone posted earlier - it's not something you teach young umpires and calling the location of the pitch is not something you do all the time. I've been doing it on borderline outside or inside pitches for the last couple of years and haven't had any problems with it. Sometimes, I'll just turn my head and say ball while looking the outside pitch away. At the college level, it sometimes stops the coaches from asking "where's that pitch". In Independent Ball, they pretty much know when you turn your head that the pitch was out or in ... I guess they have more of a "clue" (that's not a knock against college coaches - just different experience levels from managers in pro ball). |
it's not something you teach young umpires
That's for sure! Any clinic or school I have ever attended, and the ones I have taught, we emphatically teach umpires NOT to call the location of pitches. It usually leads to more b!tching and moaning, and second guessing. If you haven't had a problem with it yet, you've been lucky. If you just call "Ball", there is not much they can argue about. I have not had any college coaches saying, "Where was that one Blue?". They are smarter than that. I don't even here that out of most HS coaches. I do sometimes hear it from Men's Leagues, but those guys have no clue most of the time anyway. |
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1. You are correct, Richie Phillips, not Garcia. Thank you for the correction.
2. Phillips did an excellent job of protecting the umpires for many years, then gave them REALLY bad advice, thinking that he and the union were invincible. He and many umpires learned a costly lesson. Unfortunately, MLB let some of the umps that resigned back in, under threat of court action. Joe West and Bruce Froemming are two that resigned that were later reinstated, among others. |
Nope,
"Joe West and Bruce Froemming are two that resigned that were later reinstated, among others."
I think you better check that piece of information also. You missed two calls in this thread already. Tee |
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Zen Answer
It's kinda like someone who's not fast, but they're not slow, either. They're half-fast.............. |
Nope,
"Joe West and Bruce Froemming are two that resigned that were later reinstated, among others." I think you better check that piece of information also. You missed two calls in this thread already. Tee On July 14, 1999, 23 of the 32 AL umpires, and 33 of the 36 NL umpires tendered their resignations. Bruce Froemming was a union board member. Both he and Joe West were on the list of umpires that resigned. Their resignations were to be effective September 2, 1999. On July 27, 1999, these same umpires filed a suit in federal court in Philadelphia to be allowed to rescind their resignations. A settlement was reached in arbitration, led by US District Court Judge J. Curtis Joyner. 22 of the umpires' resignations were accepted; the others were allowed to return. Ironically, Joe West was one of the umpires that was NOT going to be allowed to return. Further court actions and settlements led to some of these 22 umpires being allowed to return as well. There is still court action going on regarding back pay that was not paid to these umpires. (Cites available if needed) Now, I have admitted to incorrectly stating the name of the union attorney as Richie Garcia when in fact it was Richie Phillips, as Dave as pointed out. Other than spelling, where was the other blown call in this thread? http://www.fmew.com/archive/umpire/ http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas..._wednesday_ap/ |
Homerun!!!!! Rob
Now back to the original thread. I have found that "tracking the ball" has eliminated the need to tell where the pitch is. If you turn your head down and to the left on a right handed bat, then it was low and outside. I very seldom get asked "where was that one ump", since I started tracking the ball. Greg B |
bad form though....
Tracking the ball with your head may let coaches know where the ball was, but you will not be as consistent as someone who keeps their head rock solid.
You may be a great umpire, but the fact that you track the ball with your whole head is taking away from your potential, IMO. I used to do the same thing. I changed (after attending one of carl's clinics) and I am much more consistent now. |
That's what a softball ump gets for talking on a baseball forum. We teach to turn the head slightly not in a jerking motion. By slightly I mean an inch. I umpired baseball for years and I can tell you that Tracking the ball as I have described is the only way I can see the entire pitch from the pitchers hand to the plate.
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What works for one, may not work for others, I guess. It worked for me, maybe it won't for you. I only track with my eyes, and it works, at least for me. When I move my head, I am not seeing the pitch from the same spot every time, which is where consistency comes from.
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http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/bas..._wednesday_ap/ (Funny, the url looks familiar) <b>National League </b> Gary Darling Bob Davidson Bruce Dreckman Eric Gregg Tom Hallion Bill Hohn Sam Holbrook Paul Nauert Larry Poncino Frank Pulli Terry Tata Larry Vanover Joe West <b>American League </b> Drew Coble Jim Evans Dale Ford Rich Garcia Ed Hickox Mark Johnson Ken Kaiser Greg Kosc Larry McCoy Noticeably absent is Bruce Froemming. Although he was one of the orginal umpires who "resigned" his resignation was withdrawn and he was not one of the 22 whose resignations were accepted, thus he was not, as you had stated, one of the resigned umpires who was reinstated. No homerun. [Edited by GarthB on Aug 24th, 2004 at 01:04 PM] |
Let's try this one more time. Bruce Froemming and 55 other umpires submitted their letters of resignation (i.e, they RESIGNED). MLB said, OK, we are hiring 25 new umpires. The umpire's union, realizing they had made a MAJOR tactical error, then filed a suit in Federal Court to rescind their resignations. As part of the arbitration settlement, all but 22 of the umpires were allowed to return, in return for the union dropping it's suit against MLB. This was the effective end of the union, as the settlement allowed 34 umpires to return (which Froemming was among), and left 22 out of a job (which West was among).
The list you published are those umpires who were not allowed to come back. As you can see, many of them later regained their jobs as well through even more court action. See Joe West, Larry Poncino and others on the list. But Froemming was a board member of the union. He was one of the first to sign the letter of resignation, and to convince others to do so as well. Make no mistake. Froemming resigned, and then used the courts to win his job back after realizing the foolishness of his move. |
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Only umpires among the "22" who actually left were considered reinstated. Some of which Froemming convinced to leave. Semantics? Maybe, maybe not. Consider it similar to the wording of a FED test. "Bruce Froemming resigned and was among the reinstated umpires." False. The term "reinstated", for better or worse, has been reserved by MLB for use in referrence to members of the 22. After all, can one be "reinstated" to something he never left? [Edited by GarthB on Aug 24th, 2004 at 03:04 PM] |
On July 14, 1999, Bruce Froemming signed and delivered a letter of resignation to MLB.
You can quote the SI article about "reinstated" umpires, but it does not change the fact that Froemming RESIGNED, as did 56 umpires. The 22 you quoted were (origianlly) not allowed to return follwing their "resignations". SI may have called the returnees from this list as "reinstated" but that does not change the fact that Foremming resigned. If you used all of the wording as quoted by popular magazines, batters would be forced at first, Melvin would have "protested" the OBS call in the Devil Rays game last week, and various other misnomers would be true. If Froemming didn't resign, why did he have to file a suit in Federal Court on July 29, and submit to arbitration in order to "regain" his job? |
Guys,
I would never encourage/teach someone to call pitches like I do. I do a lot of things different now than I did when I came out of umpire school 5 years ago. In fact, I instruct at a small camp here in Michigan and when I teach cage mechanics, I stress the same things that I learned at the Academy - proper slot position, head height, tracking with eyes only, etc. I guess over time, I've steered away from the "robot" like mechanics you first learn at umpire school. Sometimes I even stray too far and have to go back to the basics if I'm not seeing the ball very well. I asked a fellow umpire a few years back how my mechanics looked behind the plate and his "veteran" response was, "I don't care if you stand on your head and call balls & strikes back there... just get em' right. As time goes by, I've sort of adapted my own style and it seems to work for me. Obviously, what works for one may not work for others. [Edited by Sal Giaco on Aug 24th, 2004 at 05:44 PM] |
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